Trueman on Owen
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If you want an introduction to John Owen's theology, here is a series of five lectures by Carl Trueman on Owen:
- John Owen: The Man and His Time by Carl Trueman
- John Owen and the Practice of Theology by Carl Trueman
- John Owen on God by Carl Trueman
- John Owen on Christ by Carl Trueman
- John Owen on the Holy Spirit by Carl Trueman
posted by JT at Friday, September 15, 2006
29 Comments:
No, I don't want any introduction to theology at all thank you, nor do I need it. The word 'theology' means to study God. Why would I need to study Him when He lives in me via the Holy Spirit? I know God already - personally and if you are a true believer so do you.
Out of interest why do continually print other people's material and nothing of your own?
You should try, because all the wretches you quote certainly don't know anything - all blind guides to a man!!
n2sbp
My friend, the content of your blog comments is making a pretty good case for the idea that you do indeed need to humble yourself, study some theology, and not neglected the gift of teachers that God has given the church.
JT
Thanks, Justin. Nicely done.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Studying church history and theology is the most humbling thing I've ever done. Through it, I realize just how much I do not know. It is a wonderful thing to be finite in the Kingdom of our infinite God! What a rich heritage he has left us through godly men like John Owen!
Was that first comment for real?
Mr Taylor,
I will let The Lord answer you and all those wretched teachers of a non-gospel that you look up to instead of standing on your own two feet:
1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
If you don't like what you see then go away. You are obviously a seriously deluded and very sad man and as such I will pray for your salvation and for these terible delusions to be lifted from you.
...instead of standing on your own two feet:
And you are here to teach Justin, why?
Why would I need to study Him when He lives in me via the Holy Spirit? I know God already - personally and if you are a true believer so do you.
What do you need the Scriptures for then no2? I thought we just see but through a glass darkly.
And for the record we are all wretches, but by the grace of God, he is sanctifying some of us unto salvation.
Nice post, Justin.
Brad
no2salvation-by-process --
You wouldn't happen to also be yes2truth, would you? Actually, you don't need to answer that, because I know you are. You really, really need to find something more productive to do with your time. Until you learn to be civil and write on topic, you ranti-theology message is lost on this audience.
JT,
Just wanted to say "thanks" for making this available. Unfortunately, I am justing getting in on taking advantage of these downloadable MP3's. Do you think it would be profitable to provide sidebar links to prior downloadable resources on your blog? I know you are a busy man, but I think having the resources on the frontpage would make them more readily available and would gain greater service to the education of God's people.
To n2sbp:
The hubris of your comments are exceeded only by the devil. You would do well to heed JT's rebuke, lest you join the companion of fools.
Mr Glennsp,
"If you don't like what you see then go away. You are obviously a seriously deluded and very sad man and as such I will pray for your salvation and for these terible delusions to be lifted from you."
I count all trials as joy so I cannot be sad and teaching deluded mainstream 'Christians' is the biggest trial there is. Your prayers too are useless for no one is listening to them, as it is you who is deluded.
Mr Downs,
I am here to teach Mr Taylor because ,he, like those who are defending him no nothing about salvation. They believe in a non-gospel of salvation by process or sanctification by progress - a blasphemy - they haven't a clue.
Mr Broken Messenger,
"What do you need the Scriptures for then no2? I thought we just see but through a glass darkly.
I need the Scriptures to show up blasphemous false teaching for what it is - the work of ravening wolves in their pulpits. We see the spirit world through a glass darkly, nothing else. The Lord reaveals all things to those He loves.
"And for the record we are all wretches, but by the grace of God, he is sanctifying some of us unto salvation."
No, you are a wretch, I am Born Again and perfect in His sight, because I understand what takes place at baptism and you don't. That's why you are broken and not whole and until you realise you are made whole by the indwelling of The Holy Spirit you will remain broken and useless and/or remain in your wretched condition.
Lazio,
"You really, really need to find something more productive to do with your time. Until you learn to be civil and write on topic, you ranti-theology message is lost on this audience."
There is nothing nor can there be anything more productive than teaching people The Truth and trying to rescue them from their deceived condition. When The Lord and Paul entered the synagogues, they were very, very, very off topic!!
To Timmy,
"The hubris of your comments are exceeded only by the devil. You would do well to heed JT's rebuke, lest you join the companion of fools."
There is only one person here not doing the work of the Devil and that person is me, and if you know what's good for you, you will listen and then repent, because the Scripture I am quoting below applies to you and your 'friends'.
Ah yes, vindication is sweet especially when confirmed by so many. 'Many' being the operative word here:
Matt 7:22 "Many (multitudes) will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
I also noticed you all completely ignored 1 John 2:27 or pathetically attempted to counter it with a contradictory meaningless viewpoint which again proves I'm right about your deceived wretched condition.
n2sbp and y2t.
This is like a Saturday night live skit, only more ridiculous.
I think the best thing to do now is to completely ignore this deluded and sad individual.
We are only (in his mind) giving him some sort of credibility in replying to him.
I understand what takes place at baptism
Sounds almost like Chuch of Christ, but I don't think that is where he is coming from.
He tell us Christians do not need teachers, but shows up to teach Christians. Oh, that's right, he doesn't thing JT and probably everyone else here are Christians.
Has he every asked what our view of Salvation is?, probably not! He certainly wouldn't bother reading JT's material, since he needs no one else to teach him.
He forgets that someone taught him the verse he quotes out of context. He forgets the scriptures sets up up Church structure where the elders are to teaching and refute.
Amazing!!!
Sirs and in particular Mr Downs,
"Sounds almost like Chuch of Christ, but I don't think that is where he is coming from."
I am coming from The Lord Jesus Christ where are you coming from? I will tell you, from a condition that cannot even read plain English and/or if you do cannot understand a word of it!! I will rewrite 1 John 2:27 for you so that you can read it again. I would write it in block capitals if I thought it would register or make any difference, but I don't think it will, because you all seem word blind, let alone Spiritually blind.
1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
This is what The Lord is saying through John, I am not saying it, The Lord is - do you understand this basic? If you don't, what do you understand? I do know what you understand, but surprise me!
Disciples need teachers to bring them to Christ. Once Born Again Jesus lives in us via The Holy Spirit so we no longer need men.
Here is a question for you: What man taught Paul the Apostle or taught John the Apostle? Tell me if you can?
"He tell us Christians do not need teachers, but shows up to teach Christians. Oh, that's right, he doesn't thing JT and probably everyone else here are Christians."
You said it!
"Has he every asked what our view of Salvation is?, probably not! He certainly wouldn't bother reading JT's material, since he needs no one else to teach him."
I don't have to ask, I know you have no view of salvation because you're too busy struggling with sin trying to earn it, thereby negating Salvation. As for 'JT's material' well there isn't any, all he does is quotes other people who are just as deceived as he is, probably more so.
"He forgets that someone taught him the verse he quotes out of context. He forgets the scriptures sets up up Church structure where the elders are to teaching and refute."
Of course someone taught me - as a disciple, but it wasn't anyone from mainstream 'Christianity' or I would be as deceived as you.
Now that is amazing don't you think!!!
n2sbp
The scriptures tell us in 1 Cor that some are given the gift of teaching. Why? Not everyone is given this spiritual gift. Also in 1 COr 12, we need to learn to submit ourselves one to another & recognize different gifts in the Body. Does this mean 1 John is wrong. No, John was talking about pagan teachers who had no Christianity to teach Christians. We all need to yield to each other & see each other as IN Christ & part of the Body. We need Jesus only but we are not the only ones to need Jesus. Hopefully no2... will see this truth!
don't have to ask, I know you have no view of salvation because you're too busy struggling with sin trying to earn it, thereby negating Salvation.
What is your beaf my friend? If you have some judment to make, state your case with citations from our writing. All you have done so far is draw conclusions with no substantiation.
Always ironic when a person shows up to teach everyone that we have no need of teachers.
Mr Kelly,
"The scriptures tell us in 1 Cor that some are given the gift of teaching. Why? Not everyone is given this spiritual gift."
I have told you why - to teach disciples and disciples aren't Born Again. Those Born Again don't need any man to teach them - none, not a single one.
"Also in 1 COr 12, we need to learn to submit ourselves one to another & recognize different gifts in the Body."
Nowhere in 1 Cor 12 does it mention brothers submitting one to another. You are confusing esteeming a brother higher than oneself with submission - two different things entirely.
"Does this mean 1 John is wrong. No, John was talking about pagan teachers who had no Christianity to teach Christians."
Here, you are trying to explain 1 John 2:27 away. When the Holy Spirit resides within a human being, which is what this verse is talking about, Jesus Christ leads us and speaks to us directly. Ask yourself, why would I need a man?
"We all need to yield to each other & see each other as IN Christ & part of the Body."
I don't yield to any man nor is it Scriptural to do so either, so you have just made this up.
I can only see another human being as being IN Christ if I am likeminded with them and as you can see from the discourse on this blog there is not much chance of that until some serious repentance has taken place.
"We need Jesus only but we are not the only ones to need Jesus."
All of mankind needs Jesus Christ, but most of them don't know it, nor will they until The Father opens their eyes. John 6:44
"Hopefully no2... will see this truth!
I already know The Truth for The Truth is Jesus Christ and He lives with me and in me via the indwelling of The Holy Spirit. It would be impossible for me not to know The Truth.
n2sbp
Glennsp -- Close, he's former Worldwide Church of God. It sounds like he got burned by the dissolution of that church and has something personal against Herbert Armstrong, their former leader. no2sbp/yes2truth/Charles Crosby has some very interesting and unbiblical theology of his own, though he wouldn't admit to it. Just google "yes2truth" and see how many hits you get. He spends a lot of time on this crusade of his. I wouldn't recommend direct discourse, as it is never profitable with him.
Mr Downs
"What is your beaf my friend? If you have some judment to make, state your case with citations from our writing. All you have done so far is draw conclusions with no substantiation."
Oh, I have all the evidence I need to come to an obvious conclusion about you Mr Downs, just by your attitude and disagreement with what I am saying.
You are not listening, nor do want to listen, so I therefore know anything I teach you will be rejected. Paul had this problem in the synagogues of the first century.
Please feel free to confirm that you believe you are perfect in The Father's sight and that repetitive confession of sins is not required of Born Again Sons of God and then I will know I have misjudged you.
n2sbp
Whoops -- that comment was meant for Jeff Downs, not glennsp.
Mr Lazio
"He spends a lot of time on this crusade of his."
Only murdering papist illegitimates do crusades, you know the ones, those people that mainstream Christians think are the original church with many seeking unity with it - The Whore of Babylon.
"I wouldn't recommend direct discourse, as it is never profitable with him.
If you had anything to offer I would listen, but unfortunately you don't. It's you who needs to listen to me, if you know what's good for you.
n2sbp
You are not listening, nor do want to listen, so I therefore know anything I teach you will be rejected. Paul had this problem in the synagogues of the first century.
Well, so far, you have called people names, stating they are deceived, etc. with no proof. As a Christian, it would be wrong for me two just accept your word when you show no sign of reading any of the men quoted on this blog. I can almost guarantee you have not cracked a John Owen book, but you state he is deceived.
You are very selective in you understanding of the scriptures my friend. It is already established that God set up Churches where we have elders, deacons, etc. (call them whatever you will) to continue to feed God's people.
You seem to have a direct pipe line to God (i.e. he speaks to you directly apart from the Word), so I have no more to say. You obviously do not want to listen to anyone else, which make you an unteachable and arrogant man (as you clearly reveal in your last comment). Your cultic mentality shines bright through your posts.
Thanks for your time. I'm done.
If this guy is a splinter for the WWCG, I'm sure you all are familiar with their teachings. If not, the following would be helpful along with this.
This guy makes all the more reason why Churches need to be involved in Countercult ministry.
One more thing. Hey no2salvation-by-process. We would love to have you on The Narrow Mind to discuss your views.
Mr Downs,
Of course you're done because you have no answers. How many times did The Lord Jesus Christ silence the Pharisees of the first century?
You asked me how I could 'judge' you when you thought that you had not told me what your beliefs are.
I invited you to confirm the following: "Please feel free to confirm that you believe you are perfect in The Father's sight and that repetitive confession of sins is not required of Born Again Sons of God and then I will know I have misjudged you."
Now, what did you do? You ignored my invitation and that tells me you are exactly what I say you are.
I don't even have to turn a page of John Owen because I know it will be full of error. How do I know this? I know it because you people are the 'fruits' or end results of his 'teaching', and by their fruits you shall know them.
"You are very selective in you understanding of the scriptures my friend."
There is a "Simplicity that is in Christ" [2 Cor 11:3] so that 'dumb' people can easily believe and when I read any theological writings you would need a Cambridge or Oxford education to just get past the preface. All is vanity and all is meaningless when Bible intellectuals start to render The Word of God to none effect. [Matt 15:6]
"It is already established that God set up Churches where we have elders, deacons, etc. (call them whatever you will) to continue to feed God's people."
God set up one Church - The Church of God. What you see as churches are just divisions or demon-inations, as I like to call them. These demon-inations are just offshoots of the Whore in Rome. The Church is people - the Ecclesia - those The Father has called out of this world. The Church is not an organistion - all organistions are man made and not of God.
"You seem to have a direct pipe line to God (i.e. he speaks to you directly apart from the Word), so I have no more to say."
This statement reveals more than you could ever realise. You speak as if surprised, when all Sons of God are spoken to by The Lord in this way. I am not unique, but unfortunately nor is your Spiritual blindness.
"You obviously do not want to listen to anyone else, which make you an unteachable and arrogant man."
It's not that I don't want to listen for I would always listen to a brother for a brother would automatically be likeminded with me, but you are not likeminded with me, because you believe in the lies of men.
"Your cultic mentality shines bright through your posts."
The Church of God was always a sect [Acts 24:5] and a minority, for many are called but few are chosen. The True Church was always going to be small as compared to the false countefeit church, which you Mr Downs are a member of.
The Lord commands this in the last days: Rev 18:4 "Come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues"
Now, Mr Downs, are you going to heed The Lord's warning?
n2sbp
JT,
this will likely get lost under the heap of ranting, but, thank you for linking these talks. It has been wonderful to listen to these lectures and become reinvigorated to read Owen (it's been over a year since "Mortification.")
again, thanks.
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