Between Two Worlds: A Mix of Theology, Philosophy, Politics, and Culture



Tuesday, November 18, 2008

Obama's Heterodoxy

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Steven Waldman:

The most detailed and fascinating explication of Barack Obama's faith came in a 2004 interview he gave Chicago Sun Times columnist Cathleen Falsani when he was running for U.S. Senate in Illinois. The column she wrote about the interview has been quoted and misquoted many times over, but she'd never before published the full transcript in a major publication.

Because of how controversial that interview became, Falsani has graciously allowed us to print the full conversation here.

Read the whole thing.

Some reactions (click their names to read more of their thoughts):

Joe Carter:

. . . from a political point of view, whether the President is a Christian, Jew, Muslim, whatever, should make no difference. But I believe it is useful to have an idea of what theological commitments we might have in common. And after reading this interview, I would say that Obama and I share very few beliefs. . . . In fact, nowhere in the interview did I ever get the impression that Obama subscribes to even the most basic beliefs that are typically associated with being a Christian.
Rod Dreher:
Unless Obama was being incredibly and uncharacteristically inarticulate, this is heterodox. You cannot be a Christian in any meaningful sense and deny the divinity of Jesus Christ. You just can't. . . . People think you can make this stuff up as you go along, and that nobody has the right to define authoritatively what any of it means. It's the Church of Christianity without Christ. It's Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, so let's call it what it is -- but not what it is not, which is Christianity.
Daniel Larison:
Ultimately, the inquiry into Obama’s faith does not tell us much that we didn’t already know, which is that he is a liberal Protestant with an accordingly poor grounding in theological orthodoxy. I have to wonder how much power this critique has unless it is made as part of a general argument for theological conservatism in public life. Would cultural conservatives be open to this kind of critique when it is one of theirs being criticized, or would they repeat the arguments marshalled in defense of Romney?
Ross Douthat:
Given the muddled way in which most Americans approach religion, and the pervasiveness of heterodoxy, I suppose I'm basically with Alan Jacobs: I think that figuring out exactly what sort of things Obama believes about God and Christ and everything else, and how those beliefs may affect his Presidency, is ultimately a more profitable pursuit than arguing about whether he should be allowed to call himself a Christian. Or put another way: I expect my Presidents to be heretics, but I think it matters a great deal what kind of heretics they are.


20 Comments:

Blogger Blue Collar Todd said...

Plus, Obama denies the exclusivity of Jesus as the one and only way to God. He also has a self referentially incoherent view of sin, in that it is violating his personal values, not God's Commandments. If we can call Obama a Christian then why not Oprah?

11/19/2008 12:43:00 AM  
Blogger CR said...

Would also recommend Obama's Religious Ruse: The Cult of the Marxist Messiah

11/19/2008 01:30:00 AM  
Blogger Jerry said...

So, sin is being out of alignment with his own values?

How narcissistic.

11/19/2008 08:34:00 AM  
Blogger -- chase said...

It's been a while since I read the interview, but I remember thinking it showed Obama to be a spiritually immature Christian and not very theologically deep. However, I think it's uncharitable to read this interview as you would a systematics textbook or even an interview with a religious figure. Nowhere does Obama "deny the divinity of Christ" as Dreher asserts. In fact, Obama's statement that he has a personal relationship with Jesus kind of implies the opposite.

His statement that "I believe that there are many paths to the same place" may mean that he's a universalist, but in the context it sounds more like he's talking about a secular kind of pluralism required in American democracy.

As Obama's Saddleback appearance showed us, he is surprisingly inarticulate about matters of faith, but I wouldn't paint him as heterodox from this interview.

11/19/2008 08:55:00 AM  
Blogger JMH said...

Certainly there's no requirement (from the Constitution or from me) that the President be a Christian. But I hope some of the people (e.g. Donald Miller) who lambasted conservative Christians for opposing Obama, claiming that he was the Christian candidate, will now see that he's not really any closer to being a Christian than he is to being a Muslim.

Dreher is exactly right-- this is the default American religion of moral therapeutic deism. That doesn't disqualify him for the presidency, and how it means he will govern remains to be seen. But let's not pretend he has a credible profession of faith in Christ.

11/19/2008 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger Stan McCullars said...

Jerry,
How narcissistic.

That would be consistent with his desire to keep legal the practice of baby dismemberment and/or poisoning.

It's also consistent with the attitude of women and men who would kill their babies for selfish reasons. What a natural choice Obama was for them.

11/19/2008 09:03:00 AM  
OpenID soundslikelife said...

It is Ghandhism at best.

11/19/2008 09:23:00 AM  
Blogger donsands said...

"FALSANI:
Who's Jesus to you?

(He laughs nervously)

OBAMA:
Right.

Jesus is an historical figure for me,"

What would I, or any Christian, who has been in church for 20 years, and even had an upbringing in the church, and had an ephiphany say to such a question?

I'd say, "Jesus is the Lord of my life. He is my Savior and God. In fact, He is the only Savior for sinners. There is no other name given where a person can find forgiveness of sins, and where one can be made right with God.
Jesus died on the Cross for my sins, and He rose from the dead on the third day, and He now sits at the right hand of God on high.'

I could of course say a lot more.

But I would never, never chuckle. Say. "Right", and then say Jesus is a historical figure."

Obama has no idea who the Holy Spirit is either. He has no idea if there is a heaven, but if there is, then if you live as good as you can, you may reach there when you die.

Barak needs our prayers that he would come to the truth 1 Timothy 2:1-2.

Thanks for posting this.

There are going to be so many people on Judgment day. who will wish they never endorsed this man as a Christian, when he is obviously not.
May they all come to repentance, and speak the truth about this man, who needs to come to Christ.

11/19/2008 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger DJP said...

Well, Don, maybe simply and unambiguously affirming the truth about Jesus is above his pay grade.

11/19/2008 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Stan McCullars said...

DJP,
It's amazing that determining when life begins is above his paygrade but supporting the practice of baby dismemberment/poisoning is within his paygrade.

11/19/2008 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger CR said...

Biblical Christianity will be tackling a related issue at Defining Christians and Republicans

11/19/2008 02:24:00 PM  
Blogger Daryl said...

Well that certainly gives the lie to his claim to be a Christian, doesn't it?

What did he say? If I'm good and true to me, I'll be rewarded. (my paraphrase) Heterodox is too kind. He's not heterodox, he's a humanist. He just uses the terms that will get him on board with the unsuspecting.

11/19/2008 04:20:00 PM  
Blogger Aisha said...

I am always amazed at Christian doctrine, because it has nothing to do with Jesus doctrine.This is what Jesus said in John 13:34-35  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

So while you may be saying your a Christian and you can recite Christian doctrine, maybe you should read the Gospels of Jesus Christ and do like Barack Obama and "SHOW UP" that's what Jesus asked you to do.

11/19/2008 05:33:00 PM  
Blogger DJP said...

Whoever sold you that New Testament owes you a refund, Aisha. There are a whole lot more than two verses in there.

And they all "count," with Jesus-weight.

11/19/2008 06:10:00 PM  
Blogger Biased Girl said...

Possibly one of the most revealing interviews I've ever 'read' with Obama. He is not a Christian by my definition and I'm no scholar. But he appears to be agnostic, which in my opinion are just atheists who are afraid they might be wrong. To say that Jesus is a "historical figure" pretty much eliminates Christianity from the discussion.

11/19/2008 06:29:00 PM  
Blogger Alando Franklin said...

Now that apparently everyone here has discerned that Obama is not a Christian, where are those calling all to pray for his salvation?

All the comments are a far cry from the Apostle Paul's instruction to Timothy:

The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.


When President Bush was sworn in, shortly after he stated that his God & Allah was the same God and he was still touted as being a Christian. Even when he "worshipped" in a Buddhist temple, no one made a fuss about it, but again excused him by saying that he was a President not a theologian.

11/19/2008 09:46:00 PM  
Blogger Stan McCullars said...

Alando Franklin,
no one made a fuss about it...

I'm not sure how you would know one way or another since you have apparently had your head buried in the sand.

11/19/2008 09:48:00 PM  
Blogger donsands said...

"All the comments are a far cry from the Apostle Paul's instruction to Timothy:" -Alando

"Barak needs our prayers that he would come to the truth 1 Timothy 2:1-2." -me

11/19/2008 10:02:00 PM  
Blogger road warrior said...

Does any of this really matter anyway. The liberal illuminati have made Obama into a great Christian for the election, that's over and so will his deep faith. I think he probably does believe in God but there is no doubt it was played up in the election to get votes. I doubt we will hear much about it for the next 4 to 8 years.

11/20/2008 12:13:00 AM  
OpenID chloeafter said...

Obama is no christian. He laughs nervously when asked about jesus; and characterizes Jesus as an historical figure and teacher who bridges the gap between the old and new testament.

To Obama sin is not living in accordance with his values. This is a "floating" sense of sin which changes with his value structure. Christian sin is the failure to live up to absolute standards: worshipping false gods (putting "materialism" before god for instance); murder (whether literally or metaphorically), stealing (failing to honor other's boundaries and property); gluttony (being controlled by your bodily desires). I won't bore everyone with the seven deadly sins and the ten commandments. Sin is not relative - and, most certainly it is not as amorphous as going against "one's values".

Obama's failure to acknowledge Jesus smacks of narcissism; a self-centeredness; egotism and moreover, a failure to acknowledge that one is in need of guidance. Our acknowledgment that we do not know all the answers, that we are but a speck in the sands of time, that we are not the controllers of our world, and that there are many things we do not know - and cannot know - brings us to an acknowledge of god and his works. Jesus is not merely a teacher and historical figure: we need to acknowledge that he is greater than us so that we can discard the self-centerness that prevents us from truly becoming true christians.

It is no accident that AA requires each person to recite that there is a "higher power" - so that each person can understand that they need help; that the world doesn't evolve around them and that their actions are not faultless and that they require help. This leap away from narcissism is crucial to recovery.

Obama's attendance at a church (for 20 years) that espouses hate is not Christian. Christianity's answer to life is the concept of love and that each person is worthy in the eyes of god - that god loves us all - not merely the members of his church, his tribe, or his sect - but all of us and thus, we are all worthy. This concept discarded aristocracy and moved us into democracy - in which initally in the US only a landowner male could vote, then all white men, then non-white males and finally in the 20th century - women. The "working out" of the Christian ideal has brought us to animal rights, to the protection of people whose sexual orientation is different - to affirmative action. No true Christian could sit in that church and listen to messages of hate. I understand the need for community that Obama must feel and the need for social support as a mixed-race person - which no doubt Rev. Wright supplied - but, no Christian would listen to this hate mongering.

Obama is no Christian. His acknowleged relative sense of sin and narcissism definitionally exclude him being a true Christian. I will say a prayer for him, his family and the country.

11/22/2008 05:27:00 PM  

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