Newsweek on Keller
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Newsweek profiles Tim Keller.
The reporter writes about visiting Redeemer: "There's nothing sexy here. There's no rock band, no drop-down theater-size video screen, no 100-member gospel choir—just a few chamber musicians and a couple of prayer leaders to help the congregation along in its hymns. The crowd at Redeemer Presbyterian is overwhelmingly young, single, professional and—for lack of a better word—sober."
Here's the conclusion:
Update: Tim Keller writes in with regard to the comments to this post:
The reporter writes about visiting Redeemer: "There's nothing sexy here. There's no rock band, no drop-down theater-size video screen, no 100-member gospel choir—just a few chamber musicians and a couple of prayer leaders to help the congregation along in its hymns. The crowd at Redeemer Presbyterian is overwhelmingly young, single, professional and—for lack of a better word—sober."
Here's the conclusion:
Like so many New Yorkers, Keller is a misfit. He's a megachurch pastor who doesn't like megachurches. He's an orthodox Christian who believes in evolution. He emulates the Puritan preacher Jonathan Edwards and loves a good restaurant. He's an evangelist who relishes the power of doubt. New York is the perfect home for such an idiosyncratic Christian: "I'm probably an overeducated guy who makes things too complicated for a lot of people," he says. As it is for all New Yorkers, the question for Keller is whether he—or his vision—will ever be at home anywhere else.(HT: Z)
Update: Tim Keller writes in with regard to the comments to this post:
We should be charitable to the writer on the issues mentioned. They are pretty minor. Yes, it isn't my first book, but the last one was over 20 years ago. I don't preach at all 5 services--I preach 4 and every week someone from the preaching team preaches the fifth one. I wouldn’t in the least style myself a new C.S. Lewis (who would want a new one when the old one is still so great) but she got that from publicity copy written by well-meaning people at Penguin. I wouldn't want to characterize myself as another Rick Warren but she likes Rick and wouldn't see that as a negative statement. I believe in the historicity of Gen 1-11 and Adam and Eve and I don't believe in young earth-creation or six 24-hour day creation, but, as far as she's concerned, that means I believe somewhat in evolution. She's not used to the fine distinctions on these things we make inside the church. Also, I've never lived anywhere near Georgia (but maybe I've spent so much time in the airport it's affected my accent!) And even the statement that my book disappointed her in comparison to my preaching is actually true—I’m a better speaker than writer, and always will me. That was more a compliment to the preaching than a criticism of the book.
Despite this list of nits to pick, it was an overall positive, even warm article, especially considering it comes from someone whose beliefs are so different. The writer clearly likes the church and appreciates the ministry in many ways. So I'm glad for her efforts.



31 Comments:
"He's an orthodox Christian who believes in evolution." Am I missing something?
AJ,
I'm on the last chapter of The Reason for God. In a chapter about science, Keller briefly discusses his view of Genesis 1 and 2. I really like this book. I think it may even be a new Mere Christianity for the 21st century (there's certainly a Lewis flavor from cover to cover).
Keller beleives in Macro-Evolution?
(change from species to species over thousands or millions of years) ?
Say it isn't so, Tim !
Does he believe in he historicity of Adam and Eve?
He's an orthodox Christian who believes in evolution.
:(
All I know is that I have heard TK preach against the idea that human beings are chance products of evolution. Note that he is not quoted about his views of evolution. The writer just says he believes in evolution without being specific. I'm praying for him as this book is released. It will be interesting to see what the mainstream media does with it the book and its interviews with him.
"He's an orthodox Christian who believes in evolution." Strange statement. There are several factual errors in the article, so it would not surprise me if this is one also. I expect it is more accurate to say that Keller holds the framework view of creation, which allows for the possibility of micro-evolution. As a minister in the PCA, Keller is presumably within the bounds of the PCA's statement on creation, which allows various views on the length of the days of creation, "provided the men can affirm the historicity of Gen 1-3 and do reject evolution."
Tim Keller presents his views on evolution in his sermon "Evolution & Science" from a series "Defeaters", starting from 23rd min onwards.
He acknowledges that macro-evolution presents a serious defeater to the Genesis story and hence authority of the Bible. While he has many arguments against macro evolution, these are too complicated to convey to an average person. Instead, he says it's best for Christians to say that it is not wrong to believe in some form of evolution, such as microevolution, or special (progressive) creation. R.A. Torrey and B.B. Warfield, who contributed to Fundamentals, believed in evolution of a certain kind.
Finally, Keller very clearly states that he does not believe Creation Science, which is built on two pillars - early Earth and worldwide flood. In Keller's opinion, Gen 1 is a song, while Gen 2 shows is the actual account of events. We do not need to explain contradictions of Gen 1, since it is a song. And if Gen 2 is the actual account of what happened, then we don't know much about how exactly it happened (in how many days, etc.), and there is nothing left to defend.
Well, I did my best at summarizing his 20 min speech on this, but do download the sermon and listen for yourself.
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I have never met Tim, so do not speak for him, but I have listened to him regularly for many years. I have just a couple of suggestions/corrections regarding this article: 1. The Reason for God is not Keller's first book. It's at least his second, perhaps third depending on what you call a book. He first published Ministries of Mercy (avail on Amazon, for instance), and second Resources for Deacons (also avail on Amazon). 2. I don't think he'd feel comfortable with "the CS Lewis of the 21st century" quote - even if he did, I don't. I also don't think he'd feel comfortable with the "Rick Warren of global cities" quote. Both are oversimplifications, and misunderstand Keller and level him down into a two-dimensional character. He is bigger than both categories and hence both do violence to his spontaneity, to his idiosyncrasies and quirks and his broader aspirations. I think only an *insider* can accurately summarize , someone who gets him from the inside. Someone who is reporting on a story because its interesting will mis-approximate the man, his mission, and his social space. I look forward to hearing a more careful look into this man and his ministry. Thanks.
DamonTitus:
I'm going nudge you and say that he, "the Newsweek guy," is actually a she, named Lisa. It's probably best to not assume the masculinity of a writer. Women often graduate from college and grad schools too, and are very competent in the discipline of journalism. While I also have suspicions that Lisa may not fully understand Keller's positions, I think its important not to call her a man. To an outsider, you might be seen as an ignoramus or a bigot, neither of which we would want associated with this self-proclaimed complementarian blogosphere. I'm sure your comments were made in only the purest light, so don't hear me as making vain or blind accusations. Just a friendly note of nuance, love and grace.
Guy, (yes, I'm also a male :)
Well said, Guy. The items you highlighted were the "several factual errors" (perhaps a slight exaggeration) I mentioned above.
Bryce,
By the way, does anyone NOT believe in micro-evolution? Macro-evolution is the only evolution in question for any Christian, young-earthers included.
How did this get onto evolution? An irrelevant obsession.
My concern about Keller, from a minimal exposure, is that he is into felt-needs evangelism. I would like to be proved wrong on this, and will do a bit more investigation.
Gordon,
How is it irrelevant? Why use the word "obsession"? I am sorry if I got off the topic. My aim was simply to clarify a point made just as Guy so aptly did.
Gordon,
If there is anyone who doesn't preach felt needs evangelism it is Keller. In fact he is the first pastor I heard make the distinction between our felt needs and our real need.
I have never been a huge fan of Keller's writing or preaching to be honest . I just don't gel with his method or style I guess.Plus lets change the wording concerning evolution . Micro-evolution is more of adaptation within species than evolution . Plus if Keller holds that chapter 1 of Genesis is a song and chapter 2 is the more accurate account , I would love to read that argument .I have heard and read similar defenses and they just ring like a stretch to me !! My question is does he hold to a historical reading concerning Adam and Eve . If not , he has some huge explaining to do to say he is an orthodox believer !
rws, I've never actually heard him state this clearly, but I am assuming that since he does believe in historical accuracy of Gen 2, he should believe in historical reading concerning Adam and Eve.
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Guy Said
"Women often graduate from college and grad schools too, and are very competent in the discipline of journalism. While I also have suspicions that Lisa may not fully understand Keller's positions, I think its important not to call her a man."
Point taken, and I thank for you pointing that out. I went ahead and changed it. My wife in fact is an English major right now, and is intersted in the field of journalism, so I'm wearing extra egg on my face on this way. Thanks for your chartiable nudge. Grace and peace.
Ed Stetzer emailed Tim and got the scoop.
Regarding the evolution comment:
It seems strange to me, but did everyone read the entire post Justin gave? Keller explains there that she, the journalist, misinterpreted a bit of what his actual view is. He said that he is not a literal 6-day creationist, and that he believes in the historicity of Adam and Eve. I think we all need to be careful not to give into our culture's tendency to make judgments based upon sound bytes. Be thorough in your readings so as not to misunderstand what is going on. This is exactly how rumors fly around and things get misunderstood.
Additionally, there are a ton of you commenting that "Keller wouldn't be comfortable being compared to C.S. Lewis." Yes, good observation, that's exactly what Justin posted coming from Keller's own words. (I'm simply backing up what I stated just before)
And Mr. Cheng! "Keller is too into felt needs evangelism?!" You are wrong, so please do some more investigation, and BE VERY CAREFUL about making such comments like that before you have done the requisite investigating.
Lastly, please do understand I say all of these things in love. It just seems so clear to me that we have to fight to maintain unity in Christendom. Blogging can be such a dangerous thing if we don't read thoroughly and seek to REALLY understand one another.
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lone0025:
thanks for your comment. I was really discouraged reading this.. until I read your comment.
knowledge puffs up but love builds up.
sometimes I am just scared about knowing God and reading blogs for the wrong reasons.
lone,
TK's response was added later so many of the early posters did not see it. But I still agree with you about the need to be careful about comments made on blogs.
I appreciated Dr. Kellers follow up to the post. I aplogize for anything unchartiable I said in any of my comments. I agree that it was a good article overall, and I'm glad the writer liked the Church. All said, I'm glad she wrote it, and I count as a blessing for the Church that she did.
"I believe in the historicity of Gen 1-11 and Adam and Eve and I don't believe in young earth-creation or six 24-hour day creation, ..." -Tim Keller
I'd love to hear him unpack this.
I know the Lord is greatly using Tim and his church in New York. A humble servant of the Lord, with great rewards in heaven I would think.
Thank the Lord for Tim Keller.
I have heard some of Tim Keller's Mp3's and have been blessed by them tremendously.
After reading this post and then seeing Pastor Keller's comments. I am so glad that the Lord has blessed the Body of Christ with such humble men. Glory to God!
So Genesis 2 is the actual account according to keller?
Did snakes have legs? Did the earth produce thorns and thistles before Adam and Eve?
Is progressive creation any different from Theistic evolution?
I don't think his position solves any scientific questions.
In the update is Keller saying that he doesn't believe in the young earth creation or the 6-24 hour deal?
Bryce, and that is consistent with what he earlier said in the sermon.
I was struck by the comment that we were all sober! Forgive me, but I'll be honest to tell you that I taught sunday school to 27 first and second graders hung-over on Sunday... One of the wonderfully idosyncratic things about Christian faith, and one that I think Redeemer embraces is to know what it is to be human and to enjoy life and to reach out to those in every walk of life - people of faith or not; people of wealth or poverty. I appreciate that the author highlights Tim's humanity and that he enjoys a good restaurant. The word sober often can connotate boring as well which is one feature that Tim, his book (hopefully, i have not yet read it) and Redeemer thankfully lack. What Tim has done through our "mega church" may not be done elswhere on the level that it is done in NYC because of the nature of our city - but the message can be heard and followed as it is ultimately the message of the
Gospel - to love justice and mercy and to give generously and graciously. I hope and pray that God will benevolently continue this ministry and the Redeemer mission and plan throughout the world!
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