Piper: Bad, Not Mad
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John Piper responds to the "I'm Bad" sound clip in an interview with Louie Giglio.
Here's the video, for the few of you who may not have seen it till now:
Here's the video, for the few of you who may not have seen it till now:
posted by JT at Thursday, November 23, 2006
25 Comments:
Excellente!
I am sitting here cringing... wondering who will be the first to play this track as John approaches the pulpit to preach! Can we just say now, from one lowly preacher on behalf of a great preacher, that such would probably be a very bad idea!
For those who wish to listen to the portion of the linked iTunes interview related to the "John Piper is Bad" video, it's at about the 20 minute mark.
I cringed as well, and I took a few minutes to try to ask myself why. Hopefully I can explain why this video concerns my deep moral convictions as an evangelical.
1. I'm suprised Piper himself didn't find it distasteful.
2. Piper has been very careful not to distort his own message by mixing it with humor. He speaks about this, and how he differs from his father regarding the use of pre-meditated humor.
3. There are people who do not share this theology who would find this kind of mockery to be just what they need to "stall out" and continue in the self-deception of innate human goodness.
4. In saavy marketing, an emotion that exists in one sphere of life is connected with an altogether different sphere so that whatever product you attach it to thereby receives through this connection some sort of psychological transference of everything that came with the first sphere, even if we know in our minds that such is not the case; that is, our imaginations are inclined somehow to long for the union of the goods of one sphere and the benefits of the other. Any sort of product that projects an image (this cell phone will make all the girls like you and revolutionize...transform...your life -- we know it's not true, but we long for it, and end up often buying it anyway, secretly hoping that it's gonna work). Like attaching the excitement of the appearance of a beautiful woman to a technological device or an alcoholic beverage, there are other sorts of welding that we see. If you can think of the two genres: caviler, carefree dance music, and serious rational mozart concerto they typically don't mix, although the same person might listen to both of them at different times. They're fundamentally irreconcilable for a variety of reasons. Nietzsche for instance understood this when he wrote about the Apollonian aspirations and the Dionysian urges warring inside the same person. To affirm both of these without chastening either of them at all is chaotic and frankly disruptive. Both no longer exist in their totality, but in fragments. So, this is the same frustration that I have with the mixing of the rational, serious form of a sermon, which is not and never should be seen as a joke, b/c Piper's pleading with you for your soul, for your life -- will you for another hour tarry from complete devotion to the Lord? oh, pray it be untrue! He speaks with passion and conviction according to reason. To wed this with undirected or even self-directed passion, and the vain, meaningless triviality of the dance music (kitsch), especially of Michael Jackson, degrades both messages from their rightful place. At a party, Michael Jackson is king. At a sermon, Piper is king. In at least this particular satire, they both lose out, and both of their messages (which are *obviously* just as much about their form as their words...that is to say, Jackson's and Piper's words don't mean the same thing when taken to the other's medium -- or put it differently, their propositions are not strong enough alone, they need the reverence that each prospective form/medium brings to seal the propositions onto your heart -- to make them alive) compromised. At the end of the day, you can call it a variety of things: absurd, bad taste, or just someone having a little fun. I think each of these is true, but I'm not so sure we should willfully acclimate our ears and our hearts to satire of such reverent things. For the same reasons that I feel uncomfortable with the SNL skits involving Jesus as some pathetic, wandering salesman wearing a dress, I also feel uncomfortable with this irreverent little clip -- even with Piper's permission to enjoy it.
To add to my last post, I think a lot could be said about the pictures chosen as well. Piper is a strong character. He's paternal and sees his role as the shepherd of a flock. He is charismatic and uses gestures in his sermons. When you have a sound byte of him screaming about how he's bad (which sounds ridiculous and insane out of context), and its melded with a picture of him wagging his finger -- the mixture shows that he is angry and condescending. I couldn't help but think of the Ted Haggard scenes from Jesus Camp when I saw this -- the utter impotent hypocrisy which that evidenced leaves my stomach turned with distaste. Please take this video offline. It is an embarrassment to Piper and his entire ministry. I can't really see how its helpful, edifying or God honoring. Thanks.
(I think I'm particularly outraged b/c there are people who I know who actually see Piper as the caricature that this media describes him as, and I do not want to add fuel to the flames of their slander of Piper's character and person, at the expense of their actually understanding the charity and love of his message.)
"To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:
A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance" Ecc. 3:1,4
As long as Dr. Piper is alright with this I believe it is a good thing. I have been to hear John Piper, and he is so down to earth. He is quite the humble servant of God. And yet such a powerful man of the Word.
It was a joy for me to watch this video. Very well done I thought, and not disrespectful at all.
That's my heart for now.
Call me a heretic, but I think God's Sovereignty is big enough to handle a little humor here. None of the elect will lose their salvation over this and God is big enough to protect the ministry of one of the great preachers of all time.
Enjoy a bit of laughter. God is still in control even if movie maker here and there is not.
Great title for the blog post "Bad, Not Mad"!!
Yeah, I just think there are things that are a little funny, and certainly not worth reacting negatively toward, and evidently so does Dr. Piper.
I posted that video on my blog a while ago. I just thought it was amusing that someone would take time to put that together.
Guy,
Are you saying that some people might view Calvinists as uptight, comdemning, and theological neatnicks? Gosh, I wonder where they might have got that idea? Definately not from their tone, or the things they choose to fight over. No that can't be it. Could it?
Can't watch the interview because it's on itunes. Can we see it on youtube or google video or some downloadable format, please? thanks!
Calvinism (as apposed to individuals) is usually viewed as "...uptight, comdemning, and theological neatnicks" by those who refuse to submit to the totality of Biblical revelation and think that their finite nature knows better than God's own word what God actually said and meant.
Oh, by the way, does childish name calling make you feel more mature?
As someone who thinks that John Piper is the tightest preacher of our era, I can wholeheartedly endorse the phrase: "John Piper IS BAD!" He is! 'Bad' in the sense that limp, compromised false teachers get real nervous when he opens his mouth. 'Bad' in the sense that God's glory is the central theme of every sermon. 'Bad' as in the greatest preacher alive!
-Tony
Glennsp, do you think you might be being just a little uncharitable when you say that "Calvinism [...] is usually viewed as '[...] condemning[...]' by those who refuse to submit to the totality of Biblical revelation"? (emphasis mine)
Just because you feel strongly about the doctrines of grace doesn't mean that everyone who disagrees with you is rebelling against the Word. Can Christians not disagree about this?
I know a couple of cents aren’t worth a whole lot, but here are mine: humor can help us laugh at ourselves and cultivate humility. I think Piper’s response reveals that he both has a sense of humor and is humble. I see no problem with the video.
Guy, bro - please learn to laugh...deep, out loud, belly laughs. I personally listen to Piper every week; I love his intensity, the sobriety and deep earnestness of the gospel message. But this is not offensive nor belittling; it is just humor.
Eric Thoennes, who wrote his dissertation on the Jealousy of God, recently presented a paper on humor at ETS - might be of interest.
Here is a post about the paper
I'm just glad Piper can laugh at himself a little bit and not get all uptight about things.
visit my blog
I'm surprised that this has turned into a "You must not have a sense of humor if you don't think this video is funny" posting war on JT's wall.
I think everyone here would agree that there are some things which are sacred and ought not be joked about.
In my judgment call this is one of those things.
Even though I do not believe in Islamic purity laws, that does not give me license to smear fake menstrual blood on the Muslims who do hold to those convictions. The US Government did this in Guantanamo Bay, and I condemn it. Why? It is an assault on another's faith -- and certainly does not breed fruitful dialog that could lead to the Islamic person feeling loved. Another example might be killing or using force to spread one's faith. To quote my hero John Piper, "We do not spread our faith through killing, but by dying." Amen. I think these words have some wisdom for use here, in our childish bickering.
It is respect for my judging that something is sacred which needs to be preserved here, even if it is not what you judge to be sacred. If you look down on me as one who has less faith than you, please at least posture me as Paul calls us to posture the vegetarian in Romans 14. Please do not edge me out of the "body" because my conviction does not fit your worldview, and even more please do not make mockery of my faith and convictions, in jest, cynicism, or sincerity.
If we will be known by our love of God and the weak, poor, naked, and disenfranchising -- then we need to pray that God gives us the kind of hearts that are sensitive to our neighbors rather than attacking them.
Guy is cracking me up!
Guy, perhaps you should follow the example of your hero:
"Good grief. I am glad I don't read the web very much. I would sin with anger too much. "Roaring debate" !-- these people have too much time on their hands."
Piper
I don't know what the deal is with the parsing of this video, but I can tell you that, being someone slightly responsible for the video (I am the photographer who took the images), all the speculations and conjecturing (particularly from Mr. Guy) befuddles me.
I have said this before both publicly and privately that, among those alive today, there is not another person who has had a greater impact on my Christian life than John Piper. I think that my friend Tony (the producer of the video) would agree with me that in no way whatsoever was this video intended to be irreverent or whatever else people are trying to negatively connotate to it. I am encouraged to hear that Piper welcomes it with the sense of reasonable humor it was intended to carry. From the many sermons I have listened from Piper, I can attest that he has a tasteful sense of humor, and though his life is respectably marked by a high level of grativas (which I deeply desire to have as well), there is no reason to think that one cannot and does not enjoy something as unharmful and fun-spirited as this video.
For the record, I do not see how someone who doesn't know the author of the video or it's intent can find the exercise of writing a thesis in the comments section of a blog a noble exercise.
tnb
*gravitas* not grativas
sorry. :)
Daniel, It is not because someone disagrees with me as if my opinion was the be all and end all.
I was careful to delineate that it was those who held a particular extreme response (and indulged in childish name calling).
I would also point out that without the 'doctrines of grace' we have nothing.
I saw this a few months ago and thought is was funny then, think it's funny now. For anybody who knows Piper, this message is immediately understood as talking about total depravity so I think that the fears that this will be taken out of context as Piper being cocky are unfounded. Thanks for posting Justin.
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