Brian McLaren Endorses Obama
47 comments | Permalink
posted by James Grant at Thursday, August 21, 2008
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47 Comments:
Now I get it!
Being Co-opted by the Republican Party=Stale and backwards
Being Co-opted by the Democratic Party= Trendy and Progressive
In the young evangelical subculture we may talk a lot about Brian MClaren but I seriously doubt his political influence goes very far at all. So whether or not you are for or against Obama this is not that important.
Interesting ad.
Especially interesting is the "Barack Obama stands by families, including his own."
Subtle reference to the cheating ways of John McCain?
As a Canadian, I found this ad really strange...
McLaren is a hypocrite. He is doing what he has disdained for so long on the conservative front. I think this tells me to support McCain now.
Really, I just don't get it.
He has said that he wouldn't want his daughters to be burdened by an unwanted pregnancy. In other words, he would endorse the killing of his own grandchild to honor the selfishness of his daughter?!? If he cannot look out for the interest of his own grandchild why would I expect that he cares one wit about my family.
It is absurd.
He stands by families, as long as they make it into the world outside of an abortion clinic. If you happen to come via that route, don't look to Barry to have your back.
Oh my goodness. Vote for Obama -- because he has a wife and two kids? Yes it's NICE and all but is this the best test for the leader of the free world? Is this the height of political conversation to which "Matthew 25" aspires? When McLaren says "everything must change" is this the kind of drivel he's advocating?
Is McLaren putting his church's tax exempt status in jeopardy with such commentary?
Unfortunately McClaren represents a demographic that Obama needs. If this add circulates within that sphere and it motivates his circle of influence to actually show up at the polls, then indeed it means votes for Obama that wouldn't have been recorded and that he needs.
As Curtis Watson stated, he may not have wide political influence, but he does have substantial influence within the 18-35 age liberal evangelical vote.
Nick:
As a Brit, I found this ad really nauseating. :)
Every butcher (Obama) needs his false prophet (McLaren).
I'm not sure how influential McLaren's endorsement will really be, especially considering he recently said that he has only met one person who said that they were voting for McCain:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/15/obama-attracts-young-evangelicals/print/
Wow - just threw up in my mouth after watching that. "Yeah, he's got, maybe, a better plan for helping the poor and the environment than McCain, so that covers up for the fact that he whole-heartedly supports the unbridled butchery of unborn children." Yeah, makes total sense. Makes me ashamed to be in any sort of category with that man.
Its no coincidence that truly evangelical theology goes hand in hand with conservative political thinking on many many issues. I've found this to be true of my Anglican friends in Australia, like, Phillip Jensen, who considers abortion a front-burner issue and taxation rates as secondary trivia. This is also true of the strength of British Evangelicalism with true evangelicals like Dick Lucas, William Taylor and Oak Hill. Does it surprise anyone that McLaren supports Obama? What makes anyone think McLaren understands the gospel? Both McLaren and Obama seem to be a new kind of Christian.
I would say that we learned a lot about Barry O's character last Saturday night when he punted with the "above my pay grade" comment.
In my opinion, the "least of these" would certainly include unborn children. Why hasn't the Matthew 25 Network taken that into consideration? Other than McLaren, I haven't heard of anyone else endorsing this Matthew 25 Network
I might get hammered for this, but I don't see the big deal with McClaren endorsing Obama. Sure, I think they're both wrong about lots of stuff, but let's be fair. McClaren is entitled to support whatever candidate he wants, and it's not "selling out" simply to endorse somebody. Besides, it is true that in other family areas (adultery, divorce) you could flame on McCain just as easily. Can't we at least recognize both candidate's weaknesses and keep the debate civil?
As to the two men being Christians, give me a break. Is being Pro-Choice really enough for us to stop being Protestant and start dictating mortal sins which disqualify you from the kingdom? We can debate McClaren's theology, maybe he is outside the bounds of orthodoxy, but it's not because he happens to lean left politically.
Longevity of legal civil union is representative of character now? The Clintons have been married twice as long.
And no Dave, it was not a subtle reference to McCain's adultery. There was nothing subtle about it, especially considering that Obama's entire platform is "I'm not McCain/Bush".
Brian Hamrick: McLaren is no longer the pastor of a local church. His departure from Cedar Ridge corresponded with his heightened involvement in politics.
Brendt: I agree, that was the least subtle political ad I have seen in quite some time.
I often say that the problem with the Episcopal Church is not that they ordained a homosexual bishop, but that they (the church hierachy) don't take the Bible seriously. The real problem with Brian MClaren (and Obama) is not that they refuse to oppose abortion, but that they refuse to submit to God and His word. They seem intent on creating a new kind of "Christianity" which will be more appealing to secular liberals, (folks once known as Christianity's "cultured despisers.") Unfortunately, as Machen reminded us, this new religion, whatever its strenghts and weaknesses, is really no longer Christianity.
Eric said,
"We can debate McClaren's theology, maybe he is outside the bounds of orthodoxy, but it's not because he happens to lean left politically."
He is outside the bounds of orthodox Christianity. There is not debate to be had. These are the facts and they are undisputed. He is outside the bounds of orthodoxy and that has a by-product and and it is a skewered world-view which denies the importance of saving the innocent whose blood is like an ocean crying out to God for justice.
How on earth am I supposed to take a "Pastor/Teacher" seriously, when he denies the importance of the issue of abortion by adding his name to a man who not only wants the rights to murder the innocent preserved, but even after they are born, he still wants to reserve the right to see the innocent's death after botched abortions. See Jill Stanek.
Revelation 22:12-16 Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.
Just one false Christian supporting another false Christian. No news here.
There's not even anything persuasive about the video. It's just emotive. It's as if they're saying, "Support Obama because he's nice. Let's all get together and be nice. Wouldn't that be nice? Vote for niceness!"
@ Gage:
I don't keep up with McLaren much so I may be wrong, but it seems like it might be a bit of an exaggeration to say that he completely "denies the importance of the issue of abortion". It seems more likely that he just doesn't think it's the most important issue, which is what a lot of my friends who are Obama supporters believe. They (and I would wager that McLaren is the same) think that abortion is a horrible thing but that its not the most important issue for them in choosing a president. I'm not sure I agree, but that position is far from denying the importance of the issue altogether.
Unless, of course, your family is yet-unborn, in which case Mr. Obama would like nothing more than to see your child artificially birthed and left to die as its underdeveloped lungs struggle to metabolize. Public domain, people.
gage browning said:
"How on earth am I supposed to take a 'Pastor/Teacher' seriously, when he denies the importance of the issue of abortion..."
Perhaps the same way you take seriously your Presbyterian forebearers (Thornwell, Dabney, etc.) who "denied the importance" of the issue of chattel slavery by endorsing pro-choice Democrats Stephen Douglass or John Breckenridge during the presidential election of 1860.
kingdomstuff said:
"Its no coincidence that truly evangelical theology goes hand in hand with conservative political thinking on many many issues."
Really? Then apparently you haven't read much church history or spoken with many non-Western or non-American believers. Most Christians throughout history (and outside the U.S.) have understood the logic of what we presently know as modern conservatism to run as counter to the gospel as you believe the logic of liberalism does. i would suggest that you may be blinded by your own chronological snobbery.
Questions: Do people believe that a Christian who votes for Obama is sinning? And if so, then should this sin be worthy of church discipline (by excommunication)?
So all it takes to be the leader of our nation these days is to be married sixteen years, have a family, and love you wife? These are great and all, and I do not questions Obama's love for his wife or children one bit. But is this what makes a man worthy of being president? Where is the man of courage and convictions? God help us all!
Christopher: Questions: Do people believe that a Christian who votes for Obama is sinning? And if so, then should this sin be worthy of church discipline (by excommunication)?
I can't think of a more poor stewardship of a Christian's vote than voting for Sen. Obama. We don't excommunicate people for poor stewardship, Christopher.
Dare I say it? Oh, why not?
CR, while in one sense I would agree with you regarding poor stewardship, I'd argue that voting for a third-party candidate (which is, in reality, a vote for Obama) would rival a direct vote for Obama in terms of stewardship.
Did the Christians in Germany who voted for Hitler commit sin?
Did some of the Christians in Germany commit the sin of omission by not even trying to stop the evil of the holocaust?
Do some Christians in America commit the sin of omission by not even trying to stop the evil of the abortion holocaust of the unborn through the simple act of their vote in a Presidential election?
I'm SHOCKED!
DID NOT see this oen coming!
christophoer: "Most Christians throughout history (and outside the U.S.) have understood the logic of what we presently know as modern conservatism to run as counter to the gospel as you believe the logic of liberalism does."
Can you support this? I am not disagreeing with your statement but I would like you to provide some support.
Removing abortion and homosexual marriage from the discussion, I think then it comes down to a comparison of political philosophies. Conservatism cares for the poor just as liberalism cares for the poor, the issue (as I see it) is how do we get to the solution?
so glad to see the new kind of Christian doesn't get tangled up in politics and make people think that Christianity equals a political platform.
Brendt,
Actually, I would also say that voting for third party is also a poor stewardship of Christian's vote. I was just trying to address Christopher's direct question about Obama.
Also, I think it's important to point out, that a third party vote changes nothing for the two major political parties. I hear people saying sometimes that they are going to vote in principal and vote for third party and teach the major political parties a lesson.
Did the 90,000 people who voted for Nader in 2000 helping President Bush win, or many of the Republicans who voted for Ross Perot in 1992, change either political party? No. The political parties continued to represent the core principles at least in terms of the social issues.
Therefore, I don't know what Christians hope to gain by voting for third party, never mind voting for Sen. Obama.
I meant to say the 90,000 in FL that voted for Nader...
Christopher,
You said, "Perhaps the same way you take seriously your Presbyterian forebearers (Thornwell, Dabney, etc.) who "denied the importance" of the issue of chattel slavery by endorsing pro-choice Democrats Stephen Douglass or John Breckenridge during the presidential election of 1860."
Christopher- they were wrong about that. Shall I now keep silent because of a dark blemish on southern presbyterianism?
Reggie said, "It seems like it might be a bit of an exaggeration to say that he completely "denies the importance of the issue of abortion".
Actually Reggie, I believe that is exactly what he is doing. It is by omission, but to smile and speak about Barack's nice family and join him is to deny the importance of the blood of the innocent (by omission).
You also said, "It seems more likely that he just doesn't think it's the most important issue."
Again, Not only does he not think it's the most important issue, his support for Barack and his silence on abortion means he doesn't think it's "an" issue.
"Support Obama because he's nice. Let's all get together and be nice. Wouldn't that be nice? Vote for niceness!"-tony
That says it all i think. Pure humanism/socialism/christianity/catholicism/and all other religions really.
"Conservative humanism is as wrong as liberal humanism"
The culture today is humanistic/pluralism. And that's what the people like. Everyone needs to get along. And the government is supposed to take care of everyone. And everyone should be equal in assets. Some people have no right being so rich. they need to share the wealth with the poor.
And, if you stand up and speak from the Bible with passion, then you're mean, and intolerant.
A tsunami of humanism is on the way.
Lest we all miss the great humor in this...
The group Matthew 25's "theme" verse is 25:40...Jesus says, "I tell you the truth, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me."
I guess "least of these" doesn't translate to "babies" to these people...interesting.
"I guess "least of these" doesn't translate to "babies" to these people...interesting."
-Well said. Good point.
The level of discourse here reflects very poorly on some of you as Christians. You should be ashamed.
I find it deeply embarrassing that my Christian brothers & sisters would conduct themselves in this way when it comes to politics. I don't care what your cause is or how important you think it is, comments like some of those above are simply dishonouring to yourselves and God. Furthermore, it doesn't win anyone to your cause.
You wouldn't tolerate that kind of attitude from your children, and you wouldn't tolerate it from anyone in person, so I don't know why it's acceptable as blog comments. As I said, some of you should be ashamed.
luke:
There are a lot of comments on here, you should be specific.
Sorry, Luke, when it comes to murder of the innocent there's really nothing to be nice about. It's not like we're debating premil and postmil. Those who provide for this ungodly slaughter need to be called out and held accountable.
Christ called the religious leaders of his days "vipers" and "sons of hell." Jeremiah, Isaiah, and countless others weren't very nice or respectful either. They were downright ugly in their accusations and proclamations against sin. Methinks there is a time for us to do the same, and in my book, abortion falls on that side of the line.
Luke S,
comments like some of those above are simply dishonouring to yourselves and God
Pretty big words. However, you failed to offer specifics.
I noticed your blog profile contains Luke S. and nothing more. Why is that?
Who is that masked man making unsubstantiated claims about what is dishonoring to...God?
You further state: You wouldn't tolerate that kind of attitude from your children, and you wouldn't tolerate it from anyone in person
Wrong. That is exactly the attitude and words I would expect from my son and others with whom I speak.
Truly a disgusting ad. Remember Obama said he wouldn't want his daughters punished with a baby if they made a mistake and got pregnant? I guess being for the family can also overlook infanticide and the radical gay rights agenda. If this movement makes inroads into mainline churches in America, I think the great apostasy good be upon us very soon.
http://whyimnotademocrat.blogspot.com/2008/07/stand-for-gods-holiness.html
Judging by all the negative vibes, I would have to say that we have yet to properly contextualize abortion into any kind of relevant framework. I propose a five-year morotorium on the subject...
Yawn. A radical left Christian endorses a radical left Marxist politician. There's a shocker. Anyone who thought McLaren wouldn't do this has had their head in the ecclesiological and political sands for a few years.
Emergents support what Obama supports: ending war in Iraq, raising taxes to support government programs, bigger government, abortion on demand without limits, homosexual rights as husband/wife, fairness doctrine (thus ending debates), and for us to be one big happy family.
What hypocrisy on McLaren's part to attack James Dobson because he is involved with politics and then turn around and do the same thing but even worst, with a liberal!
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