An Evangelical Manifesto: A Summary
73 comments | Permalink
This morning a document was released at the National Press Club entitled An Evangelical Manifesto: A Declaration of Evangelical Identity and Public Commitment, spearheaded by Os Guinness and signed by over 80 evangelical leaders. (You can read a brief interview I conducted this week with Dr. Guinness about the document.)
In order to summarize the document and the authors’ intentions, I’ve outlined it below, freely drawing on their wording. (Do not rely, however, on my shorthand. As I said above, be sure to read the whole thing.)
As the title indicates, this is a manifest to declare (1) evangelical identity (attempting to clarify the confusions that surround the term Evangelical in the US), and public commitment (attempting to explain where they stand on issues that cause consternation over Evangelicals in public life). They have three burdens: Evangelicals must (1) reaffirm their identity; (2) reform their own behavior; (3) rethink their place in public life.
They then attempt to reposition themselves in public life. In response to the enormous confusion surround evangelicals in public life, they seek to clarify their position through a number of repudiations and expressions of concern:
“Finally, we solemnly pledge that in a world of lies, hype, and spin, where truth is commonly dismissed and words suffer from severe inflation, we make this declaration in words that have been carefully chosen and weighed; words that, under God, we make our bond. People of the Good News, we desire not just to speak the Good News but to embody and be good news to our world and to our generation.”
In order to summarize the document and the authors’ intentions, I’ve outlined it below, freely drawing on their wording. (Do not rely, however, on my shorthand. As I said above, be sure to read the whole thing.)
As the title indicates, this is a manifest to declare (1) evangelical identity (attempting to clarify the confusions that surround the term Evangelical in the US), and public commitment (attempting to explain where they stand on issues that cause consternation over Evangelicals in public life). They have three burdens: Evangelicals must (1) reaffirm their identity; (2) reform their own behavior; (3) rethink their place in public life.
- Jesus, fully divine and fully human, as the only full and complete revelation of God and therefore the only Savior.
- The death of Jesus on the cross, in which he took the penalty for our sins and reconciled us to God.
- Salvation as God’s gift grasped through faith. We contribute nothing to our salvation.
- New life in the Holy Spirit, who brings us spiritual rebirth and power to live as Jesus did, reaching out to the poor, sick, and oppressed.
- The Bible as God’s Word written, fully trustworthy as our final guide to faith and practice.
- The future personal return of Jesus to establish the reign of God.
- The importance of sharing these beliefs so that others may experience God’s salvation and may walk in Jesus’ way.
- To be Evangelical is to hold a belief that is also a devotion.
- Evangelical belief and devotion is expressed as much in our worship and in our deeds as in our creeds.
- Evangelicals are followers of Jesus in a way that is not limited to certain churches or contained by a definable movement.
- Evangelicalism must be defined theologically and not politically; confessionally and not culturally.
- The Evangelical message, “good news” by definition, is overwhelmingly positive, and always positive before it is negative.
- Evangelicalism should be distinguished from two opposite tendencies to which Protestantism has been prone: liberal revisionism and conservative fundamentalism.
They then attempt to reposition themselves in public life. In response to the enormous confusion surround evangelicals in public life, they seek to clarify their position through a number of repudiations and expressions of concern:
- They repudiate two equal and opposition errors into which many Christians have fallen: (a) privatizing faith (falsely divorcing the spiritual from the secular and causing faith to lose its integrity); (b) politicizing faith (using faith to express essentially political points that have lost touch with biblical truth, causing faith to lose its independence). Instead they argue that we have a duty to engage with politics but never to be completely equated with any party, partisan ideology, or nationality.
- They repudiate the two extremes defining the present culture wars in the US: (a) partisans of a sacred public square (those who would continue to give one religion a preferred place in public life); and (b) partisans of a naked public square (those who would make all religious expression inviolably private and keep the public square inviolably secular). In its place they are committed to a civil public square (a vision of public life in which citizens of all faiths are free to enter and engage the public square on the basis of their faith, but within a framework of what is agreed to be just and free for other faiths as well).
- They are concerned that a generation of culture warring, reinforced by understandable reactions to religious extremism around the world, has created a powerful backlash against all religion in public life among many educated people. In its place they call on all citizens of goodwill and believers of all faiths and none to join them in working for a civil public square and the restoration of a tough-minded civility that is in the interests of all.They are concerned that globalization and the emerging global public square have no matching vision of how to live with our deepest differences on the global stage. Global communication magnifies the challenges of living with our deepest differences. They warn of two equal and opposite errors in the emerging global public square: (a) coercive secularism and (b) religious extremism. They also warn repudiate the positions of coercive religion (which leads to conflict) and relativism (which leads to complacency).
- They warn of the danger of a two-tier global public square (the top tier for cosmopolitan secular liberals, and the lower tier for local religious believers), which is not only patronizing but also severely restricts religious liberty and justice. In its place, again, they promote a civil public square, respecting the rights of all and requiring respectful debate.
“Finally, we solemnly pledge that in a world of lies, hype, and spin, where truth is commonly dismissed and words suffer from severe inflation, we make this declaration in words that have been carefully chosen and weighed; words that, under God, we make our bond. People of the Good News, we desire not just to speak the Good News but to embody and be good news to our world and to our generation.”



73 Comments:
JT,
Was the resurrection mentioned as a part of the evangelical confession?
"Instead they argue that we have a duty to engage with politics but never to be completely equated with any party, partisan ideology, or nationality."
Amen! Amen!
J. Gresham Machen: "I cannot conceive of preaching the truth without exposing error."
Martin Luther: "Unity wherever possible, but truth at all costs."
Participating civilly and truthfully in the civil public square, this disciple of Christ will not vote for any candidate who is pro-abortion and pro-gay-marriage.
well its good to see that they want to take steps in the right direction...I thought the jab at conservative fundamentalism was funny...even though I would consider myself a fundamentalist.
Absolutely wonderful. Timothy George, Os Guinness, et. al are publicly and forcefully beginning the process of repointing evangelicalism in the right direction.
Haven't read this yet, but on an initial scan through it is disappointing that "evangelical identity" is defined entirely without reference to baptism (or, for that matter, the Lord's Supper).
Looks like inerrancy and sola fide didn't make the cut as evangelical essentials.
FWIW, I'm curious why followers of this mere Christianity approach aren't Roman Catholics? Just from a quick read of it, I don't really see anything in the Manifesto that's incompatible with what Rome teaches.
Timothy George, Os Guinness......
Just those 2 names is enough to get me yawning.......ECT redux no doubt........
Sola fides did make the cut -- the manifesto explicitly states that righteousness is credited, that we contribute nothing to salvation, and that we are redeemed "solely by grace through faith."
Inerrancy seems to have made the cut too -- the manifesto refers to the "total truthfulness and supreme authority" of Scripture. I suppose some might say that falls short of inerrancy because explicit language of "without error in the autographa" is not present. But the language seems pretty tight to me.
Regarding Roman Catholicism... Language of Scripture as the final or supreme authority, and the denial of any single supreme leader, and the clear teaching of salvation coming only by grace through faith with imputed righteousness -- there is plenty here that a Roman Catholic would have trouble with.
I would like to have seen more made of the resurrection, but it is present as well -- "the only ground for our acceptance by God is what Jesus Christ did on the cross and what he is now doing through his risen life." And later when discussing regeneration and sanctification, the source of which is "Christ's resurrection and the power of the Holy Spirit."
I think there are many good things in this manifesto. No doubt about that. And there are many highly reputable and well-regarded signatories to this manifesto. No doubt about that.
Yet I shall pray and wait upon the Lord. I noticed that the main T4TG pastors-scholars have not (yet) signed on to this manifesto. Like R.C. Sproul, John Piper, John MacArthur, Mark Dever, Al Mohler.
I.e., I am deciding to not decide at this moment.
Compare and Contrast the Evangelical Manifesto with the The Values and Practices of the Emergent Village
Is there significant agreement and overlap between the 2 statements or are there such distinctives that one is to be greatly preferred over the other?
JKeller,
One could argue that inerrancy was central to Evangelicalism at least at the begining, so I think if the term is missing and not even mentioned there's a reason behind it.
The Roman Catholic church has never denied that we're saved soley by grace through faith. What they deny is that people are saved by grace through faith ALONE. Big difference.
In regard to the language in the Manifesto about scripture being the final and supreme authority, Rome doesn't deny that either. They would say that scripture as interpreted by the Church is the supreme and final authority, but as I read the Manifesto the document wouldn't rule that out.
I'm going to form a political party for all who think they "have a duty to engage with politics but never to be completely equated with any party, partisan ideology, or nationality."
Wanna join?
"Evangelicals are one of the great traditions in the Christian Church"
That seems really bogus. It would have to have more of an identity that the Lowest Common Denominator that has been the hallmark for the last 50 years.
Pduggie asks: "Wanna join?"
Answer: Depends on what your political party stands for.
I like what John Adams, one of the Founding Fathers, wrote:
"We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our Constitution is made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
He also said:
"You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe."
And: "Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, they may change their rulers and the forms of government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty."
Let's keep in mind that the title is "AN Evangelical Manifesto" not "THE Evangelical Manifesto".
Unless I'm mistaken, the purpose of the document was not to lay out a systematic theology.
I'm waiting for some evangelical "leaders" to completely blast the document so we can keep our reputation as nitpickers.
Before we heap too much criticism at it, perhaps some of us would like to gather a group of evangelicals and draft "ANOTHER Evangelical Manifesto". Of course, that would open up a new round of criticism.
Of course I write this as one who loves to beat dead horses and nitpick things to death. Come to think of it, that's not very civil.
Compare and Contrast the Evangelical Manifesto with the The Values and Practices of the Emergent Village
Is there significant agreement and overlap between the 2 statements or are there such distinctives that one is to be greatly preferred over the other?
thats exactly what i thought!!!
Defined "confessionally"
That I'd like to see. I'm always (sadly) amused by the quizzical looks when referencing one of the historical confessions in a sermon.
Reading some of the comments here brought Mark Twain's comment to mind (albeit not perfectly):
"I'd rather have your ignorance than my knowledge 'cause you've got so much more of it."
I'm still working through the manifesto, but so far it's an amazing document. It affirms the uniqueness of Christianity, that Christ is the only way to salvation "solely by grace through faith", it affirms substitutionary atonement, "...bore the penalty for our sins, credited us with his righteousness,..." etc. I'm getting fired up just reading this thing.
I urge all to read it before commenting on it. Justin's summary is good, but it is just a summary. If you have criticisms of the document based on the summary, first look at the document to see if it clarifies any of the issues with which you are concerned.
The Late Great Evangelical Church by C Vaughn Doner explains the anomaly of why more Evangelicals equals less influence. Reviews of the book are at Amazon or it can be downloaded at Oakdown.com.
The Late Great Evangelical Church by C Vaughn Doner explains the anomaly of why more Evangelicals equals less influence. Reviews of the book are at Amazon or it can be downloaded at Oakdown.com.
I'm disillusioned with this new attempt at unity. It is no big secret that the statistics of the world and the Church are carbon copies. So, is this more of the world, or the Church that we are hearing from? And, this thing of dual citizenship is confusing, and is it even possible, according to Scripture? I thought Christians were like aliens in a foreign land. Isn't it stated in the Bible that if we please God that it is He that would cause even our enemies to be at peace with us? The "faith" that is being presented in this document is a sham and not real faith at all. What we see here is a kind of last ditch effort and best guess at just another program and attempt to get all Christians in the same boat. All I really see here is more of the same, but more like the pro bowl of Christian programs.
I would love to a blessing on this, but instead I'll just say "good luck" because I think that is all they have going here.
Steve Blackwell
Francis Schaeffer's last book was titled:
The Great Evangelical Disaster
Perhaps this Evangelical Manifesto is a step in the right direction to averting the great evangelical disaster that Francis Schaeffer prophetically warns about.
Steve,
You state "The 'faith' that is being presented in this document is a sham and not real faith at all."
James 4:11-12 states "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"
Calling the "faith..a sham and not real faith at all" is certainly speaking against and judging these brothers.
So I ask you, "who are you to judge your neighbor?"
"“Progressives” criticize traditional evangelicals because they are overwhelmingly Republican, without acknowledging that the Republican platform, which has been consistently pro-life, is congruent with the moral values of evangelicals whereas the Democratic platform is not. “Progressives” criticize traditional evangelicals because they focus on individual sins and the two major moral issues of abortion and homosexual marriage, instead of focusing on what they call “structural sins” like poverty, war, oppression and destruction of the environment. Typically, when “progressives” talk about “broadening the evangelical agenda,” they mean making their so-called “structural sins” the priority instead of emphasizing the “personal sins” that concern traditional evangelicals.
Sadly, progressives often dilute the gospel message of salvation with their emphasis on so-called structural sins choosing to focus on the imperfections of American capitalism (which pale in comparison to those of every other economic system) and painting it as the ultimate evil (greedy corporations and underhanded bankers), and conspiracy theories abound. Though American capitalism has been the greatest engine for growth and human advancement in the history of the world, the United States, especially “Christian America,” is frequently blamed falsely for poverty and war, paternalism and exploitation, as well as racism and materialism. More recently, a presidential candidate leveled a charge of “legalized discrimination” against his country as an explanation for the long-term black poverty rates; he did not mention that economists agree that poverty in America can be attributed to “changes in family formation” because less than 40 percent of black children in America live in a married mom-and-dad family."
Excerpted from: Muddying the Evangelical Waters
I think Janice Shaw Crouse makes a very important and vital contribution to the growing analysis of the Evangelical Manifesto.
Stan,
I can certainly appreciate your not wanting to take an undeserved pop-shot at an unsuspecting bystander, but that isn't the case here.
You call it judging I call it discernment. My discernment is not rocket science, it is simply looking at the track record of what the men and organizations mentioned above have produced, and this document just appears to be more of the same, why should it be any different.
America, the greatest Christian nation on earth is in rapid decline. Now, I ask you, is God asleep and not at the wheel? Is all that is happening to our country really a blessing and I just don't see it? Or, are we reaping our just rewards?
My friend, if I am judging, my only regret is that I did not start many years ago! When one begins to speak, with anger and concern, it is only because one has pulled his head out of the sand only in time to witness an imminent train wreak.
If I am judging wrongly, prove me wrong. I pray I am wrong.
I judge no man as to his salvation, but I can judge his works, and I have seen these fads, schemes, and programs come and go, while the divorce rates, abortion, pornography, teen suicides, homosexual promotion go up, inside the "Church." I think it is time to judge it and the methods used to prevent it.
I apologize. This blog is not the place for this discussion.
Steve Blackwell
Steve,
You say "If I am judging wrongly, prove me wrong. I pray I am wrong."
I think your thinking is backwards on this. The burden of proof is squarely on you. You made an allegation that "The 'faith' that is being presented in this document is a sham and not real faith at all."
Faith being a sham is a pretty serious charge. Back it up. If you can't, you owe these brothers an apology. If you're wrong, calling it discernment doesn't excuse it.
You also write "When one begins to speak, with anger and concern, it is ONLY BECAUSE one has pulled his head out of the sand only in time to witness an imminent train wreak."
I don't think that is the only reason for speaking "with anger and concern." Some people have an Elijah Complex. That may be something you might wish to consider. It's quite a leap to move from a benign manifesto to "divorce rates, abortion, pornography, teen suicides, homosexual promotion...inside the 'Church.'"
You state "if I am judging, my only regret is that I did not start many years ago!" What if your judgement is in error? Is that the kind of judgement you want for yourself at the last day?
80 "evangelical leaders" can't be wrong? They remind me of the 138 "muslim leaders" whose Common Word also defined Christianity for all the faithful. And who were motivated by the same exploitive spiritual arrogance.
i stuck some comments on the Os Guinness post - they might fit better here...
when i read it, "fads, schemes, and programs" were the last things i found bouncing around in my head; internet communication has its limits, so one may read toMAYto and the other read PARKAY ... whatever.
who is the primary author of EvM? this has such a positive feel to it - something we've been lacking - it almost makes this Christianity deal sound plausible and appealing. go figure.
i always thought the NT needed an appendix - and here it is.
but, i'm not sure i agree with this statement:
We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.
Jesus' message uses "action" verbs (physician heal thyself - inside joke): teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know ... if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.
and it's kind of ironic that evangelism isn't the crux of the Evangelical Manifesto.
We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.
amen.
there's EM & EMs everywhere we look ...
TUAD asks,
Is there significant agreement and overlap between the 2 statements or are there such distinctives that one is to be greatly preferred over the other?
maybe we thank God that we finally have the opportunity to sit down and reach a compromise without demonizing the other side.
mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
mikerucker.wordpress.com
TUAD,
you said, "J. Gresham Machen: "I cannot conceive of preaching the truth without exposing error."
Martin Luther: "Unity wherever possible, but truth at all costs."
Participating civilly and truthfully in the civil public square, this disciple of Christ will not vote for any candidate who is pro-abortion and pro-gay-marriage."
Why do you continue to see this in every single thing? What has happened to you in the past that causes you to see telling the truth at all costs even when it divides and even name yourself after it?
And on top of that, you imply that Christians must belong to a particular party (Republican) to be a true disciple of Christ. Did you even read the manifesto? It is people like you that it is talking about.
Mike Rucker,
You stated:
"it almost makes this Christianity deal sound plausible and appealing. go figure."
"maybe we thank God that we finally have the opportunity to sit down and reach a compromise without demonizing the other side."
Well said.
I knew I liked you.
optiker,
Where did that come from?
You attribute "exploitive spiritual arrogance" to the authors of EM. Talk about arrogance. You don't know these men's hearts
So I ask you too, "who are you to judge your neighbor?"
(John 13:35) "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
We may have discovered why the word (that we are his disciples) isn't getting out.
(1 John 3:16) "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for one another."
If we can't treat one another with respect, how likely is it that we will "lay down our lives for one another."
As a former hater of the body, I think it's time we start practicing loving one another.
Stan,
You said:
"I think your thinking is backwards on this. The burden of proof is squarely on you. You made an allegation that 'The 'faith' that is being presented in this document is a sham and not real faith at all.'"
Christians are not allowed to be realist, it has to be all inflated with their own idea of what “faith” is. It definitely is not backed up with a Biblical definition. Heb 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Why do we yet hope for the things that we can manufacture with our own hands. We say “I want this” then we pray, then we go make it happen, and call that faith and an answer to prayer. America has gained its stature in the world because of greed: the lust of the eye and the lust of the flesh, and the Church has followed suit. Americans see something that needs to be done, and they do it.
Why do you think that God directed that there was not to be heard the sound of a hammer or chisel in the construction of the temple? Because mans initiatives were not to be the marks of the Church, it is a building of God, and Him alone. Why do you think that God was so displeased with the First Church of Babylon, the tower of Babel? Because it was man’s attempt to build something for God, and God sent it all into confusion, kind of like the Church today, all speaking different languages, and man trying to put it all back together again. Why do think God said that, “unless I (God) build the house, it is built in vain who builds it”? Yet man will have nothing to do with that nonsense, he will build God’s house and it will be glorious. God’s house has always been a tested, tried, persecuted, weak and struggling house. Isa 48:10-11 “Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.” Why do you think Jesus said in Revelations, that we should go back and do our first works over again? Because we have gotten so far off the path. And, we have never gone back. Oh, we have gone back to some point in history to regain some past glory, but have never gotten past Constantine and his institutionalized Church. Man has always built the Church his own way and it has faltered and it will all come crashing down on his head because it "can be shaken" and will not stand. There is a real Church, but we have all been deceived into thinking that brick and mortar, hammer and chisel, are what God uses for His building. God’s Church is built on the blood of Jesus and all His saints who have followed Him in real faith, who do nothing unless they hear from the Father.
Excuse me if I see through this forgery, it is so apparent. But, when all we have ever been exposed to is cut glass how can we be expected to know the real jewel. John 7:17-18 “If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.” There have been a few shining examples of faith in our history: Hudson Taylor, Watchman Nee, T. Austin Sparks, et al.
I actually sat in a service, Eagle Church, Whitestown, IN. Where the pastor, proud of his building project, declared in front of all the congregation that only God could do this, referring to his building. What a small God he has. The heavens declare His glory, but a building, any man could do it, they do it all the time, and put their names on them. What pompous pride. This is the Church of today, it’s all about what man has done for God, and expects God to be pleased. This is the way it has been since about 300 AD and it hasn’t changed. This document is just one more brick in man’s church construction, and he just can not see it is all worthless.
You said:
"Faith being a sham is a pretty serious charge. Back it up. If you can't, you owe these brothers an apology. If you're wrong, calling it discernment doesn't excuse it."
Phony faith is a very serious charge, as many will find out, when they think their "cut glass" can be redeemed for the real thing. The Bible directs us to examine ourselves to be sure that we are in the faith. When I hold the institutionalized Church up to the Word of God I do not see a likeness, we have been tricked. But, the Bible does say that Satan is the deceiver of the WHOLE world! And, Jesus does make the peculiar comment,"will I find faith on the earth when I return." But, none of this raises an eyebrow, or throws up any red flags in the Church today; interesting, don't you think?
You said:
"It's quite a leap to move from a benign manifesto to "divorce rates, abortion, pornography, teen suicides, homosexual promotion...inside the 'Church.'"
It is no leap at all, just a baby step, but of course you must have your eyes open, or you may fall into a ditch.
In most cases where I have been a part of the organized Church I have to agree with Paul, that their meetings do more harm than good.
Steve Blackwell
Adam,
I hate to nitpick, I think there might be a few things both in the Manifesto and in my first comment you might want to go back and take another look at.
The key criticism that men such as RC Sproul raised regarding ECT is that while the language of justification by faith alone was employed, imputed righteousness was not. That was a key criticism -- justification by faith alone has no meaning without imputed righteousness. This document has a clear statement of justification by faith alone AND of imputed righteousness. No RCC theologian who takes the Catechism seriously could agree with those statements.
"Alone" and "solely" are synonyms, the only difference between your formulation and the manifesto's is whether to place the adverb before or after the phrase. "Solely by grace through faith" and "by grace through faith alone" mean the same thing, unless you want to argue that the placement of "solely" before "by" modifies only grace and not faith. But then you could make a similar argument regarding the placement of "alone" after "faith." But that gets to a level of nitpicking that we Reformed folk are rightly mocked for.
It isn't the references to Scripture as the final and supreme authority should not be taken by themselves. The Manifesto also says that there is no one supreme leader either. My friend, short of taking a pot-shot at the RCC and explicitly saying that the writers deny the infallibility of the Pope while speaking ex cathedra, I'm not sure what else you want.
I can think of one simple reason for not using the word "inerrant" -- intelligibility. In framing this document for the secular world to read and discuss, they opted for being more easily understood. I can think of a second reason as well -- the term "inerrant" has been stretched to mean a number of different things (see the Enns controversy at WTS for one way debates on inerrancy sometimes run) that they opted to affirm complete truthfulness, which is what I suspect the average evangelical means if the word "inerrant" is used, rather than muddy the waters further.
My brother, as someone who ministers in a largely RCC community, no one is more aware of the doctrinal differences than I. But these criticisms feel like you're looking under every rock for signs of RCC influence.
My apologies for the sloppy grammar in my post... I can only plead weariness. Grace to all.
Steve,
Now you have me concerned. It may be beyond an Elijah Complex.
Ask a few friends and relatives to read your last post and ask that they give you an honest opinion.
Your post sounds completely irrational. You're probably not aware of this, of course. This is not a personal attack but a plea for you to seek help. Ask a friend or loved one to read your posts.
Rather than attempt to play Twister with your rambling, I want to address three things you said. First, you said "Excuse me if I see through this forgery, it is so apparent. But, when all we have ever been exposed to is cut glass how can we be expected to know the real jewel. John 7:17-18 'If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.'”
It sounds as if you think you're the only one who "see through this forgery, (because) it is so apparent" at least to you.
It also sounds as if you think you're the only one who can "know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God" because you're the only one who "wills to do His will." Are you the only one who "wills to do His will"? If so, you have a huge problem. There are people who disagree with your assertions. Do they not will "to do His will"? If not, "who are you to judge your neighbor?"
Second, in keeping with the theme of you having an Elijah Complex, you said "When I hold the institutionalized Church up to the Word of God I do not see a likeness, we have been tricked."
So I ask you, "who are you to judge your neighbor?" You have placed yourself in a position of judging the church. I seriously doubt Jesus is speaking to you about the seven institutional churches of the 21st century. If you do, call 911.
Third, consistent with an Elijah Complex you state "It is no leap at all, just a baby step, but of course you must have your eyes open, or you may fall into a ditch."
You think it no big deal for you to make "just a baby step" to link this manifesto to all sorts of evil. If some don't agree with you, they "must have (their) eyes open, or (they) may fall into a ditch."
You're not Elijah.
You're not the Messiah.
Start acting like it.
Fr. Frank Pavone, the National Director of Priests for Life, makes a persuasive argument that if you are a Christian, your political affiliation matters. He argues that the Church has the right and obligation to pass moral judgement “even in matters relating to politics, and even when the task of moral teaching appears to be partisan.”
Please see: Yes, The Party Matters
(H/T to Amy Proctor)
See also James K.A. Smith at Calvin's comments:
An Evangelical Manifesto?
http://www.generousorthodoxy.net/thinktank/2008/05/an-evangelical.html
Hey Stan, your false humility is starting to make me nauseas. They way you criticize Steve is pretty ridiculous....why don't you ask a loved one to read your posts? Perhaps Steve could be more gracious, perhaps you could be more understanding of the criticism. This document lifts the name of Christ and the gospel high, but you can never lift them high enough. There are some flaws, and i think some pretty important ones, but as I believe you pointed out it is AN Evangelical Manifesto, not THE manifesto. Brother as one who struggles with pride in many fashions I can spot arrogance a mile away cause I do the same things. Just do me a favor and read the judging passages in context. The major downfall of this and past generations has been lack of discernment. We are told to try the spirits to see if they be of God. We are to search the word like the Bereans to see if these things be so... Don't criticize a brother cause he rubs your ideas the wrong way.... I am forced to ask you in context...who are you to judge your brother (Steve)
p.s. Study the Elijah complex again...you have gloriously misapplied that
"Fifth, we believe that being disciples of Jesus means serving him as Lord in every sphere of our lives, secular as well as spiritual, public as well as private, in deeds as well as words, and in every moment of our days on earth, always reaching out as he did to those who are lost as well as to the poor, the sick, the hungry, the oppressed, the socially despised, and being faithful stewards of creation and our fellow-creatures.”
Living this out has implications for political engagement, no?
Going back to that first comment by jstricklin, yes they did mention the resurrection as part of the evangelical confession. So I just want others to note that the blog author didn't quite summarize those 7 beliefs correctly, (e.g. you "split" their 2 into 2 & 3, and you omitted their 3, and the numbering between your summary and their document stays inconsistent after that).
Well said Stan, well said. You echoed my thoughts pretty closely.
It's worth mentioning that the statistics claiming that the abortion/divorce etc rates within the church are the same as outside the church have long been debunked.
When those surveys have been altered to narrow down the believers from the non-believers with simple questions about habits like church attendance, prayer, bible reading and such-like, the statistics are seriously altered to show a huge difference.
So...as promised, God is keeping his church, it has not been completely compromised since Constantine...he has his elect and the gates of hell are, in fact, not prevailing, in America or anywhere else.
Credit the framers of this manifesto for attempting to bring further visible truth-based unity within the body of Christ.
A. C. Diehl,
"False humility"? You also say that you "can spot arrogance a mile away." So you and Steve both can see into a man's heart?
I have found that Elijah Complex has been used in the manner in which I used it. Namely, one who thinks they are the only one who gets it.
I used to suffer from such a complex and wish someone would have early on told me to get over it. I hope some of Steve's family and friends can help him get over it sooner or later.
You said "perhaps you could be more understanding of the criticism."
Sorry. I didn't detect any criticism is his posts only unsubstantiated assertions such as "The 'faith' that is being presented in this document is a sham and not real faith at all." Does Steve know these men? Has he spoken with them about this? Has he taken witnesses? Or is he airing his attacks because he somehow knows the real story?
You further said "Don't criticize a brother cause he rubs your ideas the wrong way."
Steve didn't rub me the wrong way. He attacked brothers in the faith with no cause. I'm not going to sit by idly while my brothers are unjustly accused. I prefer to defend them.
You state I am forced to ask you in context...who are you to judge your brother (Steve)"?
I have attempted to point out some errors (using Scripture and reason) in Steve's writing based on specific statements he made. I believe I have judged correctly. If you disagree with some of my statements let me know where and how.
I would be interested to find out if you think Steve is correct about the "sham", the "forgery", how "we have been tricked", and how it's "just a baby step" to move from a benign manifesto to "divorce rates, abortion, pornography, teen suicides, homosexual promotion...inside the 'Church.'"
Daryl,
"he has his elect and the gates of hell are, in fact, not prevailing, in America or anywhere else."
AMEN! AMEN!
If you're ever in Orlando, look me up?
Stan,
Thanks for the affirmation and the invite. I'd love to, but I'm in Canada, about 2 hours north of Detroit, so that's not likely to happen soon.
But if it does, I will.
Stan,
I have tried to explain to you through some Scripture and common sense and you reply with a psychological evaluation instead of addressing the issues. I have made no claim to being the only Christian left on earth, as you falsely presume. You have added non-sense where you lacked no sense. Your argument is childish. You attacked me personally (ad hominem) rather than dealing with the common sense reasons I gave, or the quoted Scripture. With a little sweep of your wrist, and a little slight of hand you try and destroy a valid argument with character assassination; very political.
Now, about this judging thing, you know, judging your brother and neighbor? I based my argument on experience, common knowledge, and a few verses of Scripture. You, on the other hand, give no reason for your response other than mere assumptions and slander. You, my friend, without provocation, common sense, or Scripture sit in judgment on your neighbor. Is this the pot calling the kettle black? Am I truly the one needing counsel here?
I forgive you. In the heat of an argument, if there really was any heat here, we do and say foolish things; I've been there myself. The blogosphere is a good place to indulge the flesh and get away without being seen or known, but the Lord knows. As one blogger stated, "the blog is the toilet paper of communication," and I think he may be right.
Steve Blackwell
Steve,
You malign brothers in Christ by saying things such as "The 'faith' that is being presented in this document is a sham and not real faith at all."
Then you charge ME "with character assassination"?
Wow.
For the record, I'm not trying to "get away without being seen or known" in posting here. The name listed is my actual name. My e-mail address is legit. And if you or anyone else is interested, I attend Saint Andrew's Chapel in Sanford, FL. RC Sproul and Burk Parsons are my pastors. The church's website is http://www.saintandrewschapel.org.
Steve and Stan,
So much for the desire for unity that the manifesto calls for. Boy, would the media love you guys. Poster boys for what evangelicals are like. Angry, angry, angry at everyone and at each other.
Bryan,
Help me out here. Seriously.
First of all, I'm not angry about anything here except that some brothers have been maligned without cause. If Steve should ever visit Orlando I would be more than happy to take him out to dinner (my choice of restaurant). There are no hard feelings at all. I happen to be of the opinion that he was seriously wrong to have spoken about our brothers the way he did.
Second, what responsibility do I have towards Steve given that he has maligned some brothers? Are we to have unity in such statements? Do I owe him a rebuke in such a case?
I don't think you're reading the manifesto correctly. It calls for civility in these types of arguments. Maligning brothers isn't civil. Is rebuking a brother not civil?
The Elijah Complex was brought up in response to Steve's statement: "When one begins to speak, with anger and concern, it is only because one has pulled his head out of the sand only in time to witness an imminent train wreck."
I pointed out, rightly in my opinion, "I don't think that is the only reason for speaking "with anger and concern." Some people have an Elijah Complex. That may be something you might wish to consider. It's quite a leap to move from a benign manifesto to "divorce rates, abortion, pornography, teen suicides, homosexual promotion...inside the 'Church.'""
If this exchange is considered "Angry, angry, angry" please tell me what kind of arguments do you engage in? Is there no passion?
If you read this document closely you'll see that it's nothing more then a Rick Warren, Purpose Driven, Global Peace Plan, propaganda statement with a hint of seeker sensitive, emergent church and kingdom now theology. They seek civility in public debate because they are tired of being exposed for their theological heresey. If you look at the people involved with this project, you can see why it has this theological slant.
Rob,
Please substantiate the "theological heresy" to which you're referring and how it relates to the EM.
Are there specific items in the EM you find objectionable?
Stan,
Have you ever read Rick Warren's purpose driven life or heard about his global peace plan, becasue if you had you would see that they are both heretical. The gospel is not Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. That's just a bribe to get people to come to church. The church is not called to go into a village and seek the man of peace ( Warren says it doesn't matter if he's even a christian) to help Warren fulfill his social gospel to bring heaven to earth. Study Warren before you defend him.
Rob,
Where did you get the idea that I was supporting Rick Warren from my questions? You may be reading far too much into my questions.
It seems to me that you somehow connected the EM with him. It's late and I just woke up from a rather long nap so forgive me for asking...was Rick Warren part of the group that wrote the EM? I don't recall reading about that and I can't seem to find his name on the list of contributors now. Of course I'm tired and that could explain it.
Note: For those of you who are able to look into my heart, you already know that I'm actually very tired and not just putting on some "false humility" so you don't have to ask, do you?
Assuming Rick Warren was not part of the group, I'll repeat my questions.
1) Please substantiate the "theological heresy" to which you're referring and how it relates to the EM.
In other words, please demonstrate how the EM is heretical.
2) Are there specific items in the EM you find objectionable?
I'm not asking if any of the Charter Signatories have ever made a statement with which you take issue. I would like for you to demonstrate what you find objectionable in the EM.
Hey Stan....quite while your not ahead so you can try to catch up...you are so sarcastic it is ridiculous....by telling everyone they are judgmental in a mean spirited sarcastic way...you are just doing the same thing...you need to chill
Hey JT,
Why don't you sign the document? There don't seem to be many reformed evangelicals from your camp on the list yet, so why don't you sign it? Maybe you're waiting to follow in somebody's footsteps, but why not lead the way? You say it's imperfect...well, so are a lot of things: the Nicean creed, the Apostles Creed, "Desiring God" (did I just say that?). I ask you to please consider.
I noticed that Josh Gelatt signed it; good goin brother!
The evangelical manifesto is Rick Warren’s theology. To speak of it speaks of him. You cannot separate the two. There are too many similarities between his theology and the document. It does not matter if he put his name on it. Even though Rick warren’s name is not on the document it does not mean his theology is not in it. The seventh evangelical principle is almost a word for word copy of the five purposes in his purpose driven life, furthermore the global giants spoken of in the document is again almost a word for word copy of Warren’s five global giants from his global peace plan. It is clear that this document got it’s theology from him. A lot of the content in this document follows his kingdom now theology.
YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO SEE SOME HERETICAL STATEMENTS. HERE’S JUST A FEW.
“In the actual practices of the Evangelical community in North America, there is an over-commitment to Scripture in a way that is false, irrational, and harmful to the cause of Christ. . . . And it has produced a mean-spiritedness among the over-committed that is a grotesque and often ignorant distortion of discipleship unto the Lord Jesus.
[The problem is] "the idea that the Bible is the sole source of knowledge of God, morality, and a host of related important items. Accordingly, the Bible is taken to be the sole authority for faith and practice.”
J.P.Moreland quoted in "Postcard from San Diego: Fighting 'Bibliolatry' at the Evangelical Theological Society," by Ted Olsen, Christianity Today, 11/14/07.
It is well known that Jack Hayford is a radical charismatic who is fully immersed in the spiritual warfare movement.
In the 10/91 issue of Charisma magazine, Hayford relates a vision of seeing Jesus seated in heaven and then rising from the throne. Hayford states: "As the anointing caught in the folds of His garments, it began to splash out and fall over the church." Jesus then supposedly said, "I am beginning to rise now in preparation for my second coming. Those who will rise with me will share in this double portion of anointing."
Hayford praised Richard Foster for his efforts in bringing together all the streams of the church. (Foster is the head of Renovaré, an international ecumenical organization that espouses the use of guided imagery and visualization as means of obtaining "personal spiritual renewal.")
"If miracles really did cease at 90 A.D. ... the heretic hunters were right! If we are not 'little Gods,' we will apologize to you in front of ten thousand times ten thousand before the Crystal Sea!" [Hayford has taught the "little gods" heresy himself, specifically in a message first recorded in 1979 (titled "Marching Against Mammon") and rebroadcast on a on a 10/2/86 Living Way radio program.]
John Ortberg promotes contemplative spirituality.
In Ortberg's 2005 book, God is Closer Than You Think, Ortberg quotes favorably from contemplatives such as Anne Lamott, Annie Dillard, Gary Thomas (Sacred Pathways), Brother Lawrence (who danced violently like a mad man when he practiced), interspiritualists Tilden Edwards (Shalem Institute), Thomas Kelly (Divine Center in all), Jean Pierre de Caussade, Frederick Buechner, Meister Eckhart as well as Dallas Willard and Thomas Merton. And yet, Christian churches are using this book.
Max Lucado
Cure for the Common Life, by author Max Lucado, is a book about "living in your sweet spot." Lucado tells readers in chapter one to "[h]eed that inner music," and quoting mystic Martin Buber from his book, The Way of Man (a book on Jewish mysticism), Lucado tells readers they each have a "divine spark." Buber had panentheistic affinities as he embraced the teachings of Hasidism (Jewish mysticism) and believed that this divine spark that Lucado refers to is in every human being and every part of creation.
Through Lucado's book he quotes other mystics and contemplatives: Saint Thomas Aquinas,Thomas Merton, Eugene Peterson and Richard Foster
Dallas Willard also addresses this issue in “The Divine Conspiracy.” Atonement-centered understandings of the gospel, he says, create vampire Christians who want Jesus for his blood and little else. He calls us to move beyond a “gospel of sin management” – to the gospel of the kingdom of God. So, rather than focusing on an alternative theory of atonement, I’d suggest we ponder the meaning and mission of the kingdom of God.
Dallas Willard
"What Paul is clearly saying is that if anyone is worthy of being saved, they will be saved. At that point many Christians get very anxious, saying that absolutely no one is worthy of being saved. The implication of that is that a person can be almost totally good, but miss the message about Jesus, and be sent to hell. What kind of a God would do that? I am not going to stand in the way of anyone whom God wants to save. I am not going to say "he can't save them." I am happy for God to save anyone he wants in any way he can. It is possible for someone who does not know Jesus to be saved."—Dallas Willard, Apologetics in Action
Willard is a mystic, here’s a link to one of his reading lists
http://www.dwillard.org/resources/RecReading.asp
These are just a few of the heretical statements of the signers of this document. If you search on your own you will find more.
Bob Buford is one of the fathers of the seeker sensitive church growth movement and the head of the Peter Drucker foundation and founder of the emergent church movement through the leadership network.
Look at other representatives from the organizations they come from fuller seminary, Ywam, charisma magazine and the Lausanne movement all are heretical in their own way.
We are all called to defend the truth and expose error. It is not unloving to do so. Actually we keep people from going astray in the process.
I just looked at the evangelical manifesto statement again, I see you signed it. One day by God’s grace you might see the error in your way and take the path of Thomas Cranmer who at the pulpit on the day of his execution, opened with a prayer and an exhortation to obey the king and queen, but he ended his sermon totally unexpectedly, deviating from the prepared script. He renounced the recantations that he had written or signed with his own hand since his degradation and as such he stated his hand would be punished by being burnt first. He then said, "And as for the pope, I refuse him, as Christ's enemy, and Antichrist with all his false doctrine."[84] He was pulled from the pulpit and taken to where Latimer and Ridley had been burnt six months before. As the flames drew around him, he fulfilled his promise by placing his right hand into the heart of the fire and his dying words were, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit… I see the heavens open and Jesus standing at the right hand of God."[85]
Stan,
I forgot to put your name in my last post, check it out, I think I made my point with it.
Stan,
The five purposes of God in Warren’s purpose driven life, which is clearly promoted in the document, are heretical. The fact that God has a wonderful plan for your life, which is part of the purpose driven plan, is heretical. The peace plan, which is again promoted in this document, is heretical. The fact that the peace plan states that you can work with anyone from any religion for the cause of Christ, just like the manifesto says, is heretical. The idea that the goal of Christianity is to seek social justice is heretical. Furthermore, God is not going to bring heaven to earth before the return of Christ, that idea is heretical. The complaining about the lack of civility in the public arena is just an attempt to avoid persecution and pushing it in this document as an evangelical principle makes it heretical. Saying that it is unloving to judge error is heretical. Calling fundamentalists unloving just because they defend the truth is sinful and borders on being heretical. These are just a few of the heretical statements in this document. The document also denies the inerrancy of scripture and it denies faith in Christ alone.
Rob,
Very impressive collection of heretical comments. However, if you recall "I'm not asking if any of the Charter Signatories have ever made a statement with which you take issue."
Many of the Charter Signatories have, and do, believe and teach things with which I disagree. Does that mean they're not Christians? Are they not brothers and sisters in Ch