Piper on "The Common Word" and Response
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John Piper discusses "A Common Word Between Us and You" and the response to it from 300 Christian scholars.
For those who want a fuller unpacking of Piper's views of these issues, I would recommend his essay, Tolerance, Truth-Telling, Violence, and Law: Principles for How Christians Should Relate to Those of Other Faiths, written in 2002.
For those who want a fuller unpacking of Piper's views of these issues, I would recommend his essay, Tolerance, Truth-Telling, Violence, and Law: Principles for How Christians Should Relate to Those of Other Faiths, written in 2002.
posted by JT at Wednesday, January 23, 2008
26 Comments:
Amen from someone who has read both of these documents and shares the same concerns.
Thank you John, finally. I posted on this topic a few times, and so many Christians see no problem with this ecumenical BS. It's bad.
Allah and Jesus are not the same. The Christian response even says that Christians beg forgiveness from the "all-merciful one" which is what Muslims call Allah!!
Burn the document.
I'll second the "amen". Something I would like to know is why Greg Livingstone attached his name to the NY Times response. He founded Frontiers and is going to be at the DG Pastor's Conference. I would love to hear his reasoning.
John Stott?
Greg Livingstone?
Wow.
That was a pretty direct rebuke of those who put their names on this document.
I wonder what the conversation will be like at the Pastor's conference with Greg Livingstone?
Anybody know: Is that Piper's library in the background? I've always wanted to see what his library looks like.
A great discernment video by Pastor John Piper!! A hearty amen and AMEN!!!
If Piper gets crucified for having the courage to use the platform that God has given him to proclaim Christ, then crucify me too.
For I stand with Piper for Christ.
To St. Brianstine,
Why is it wrong to ask forgiveness for the "all merciful one"? Just because it's a name of Allah doesn't mean it's not accurate as a description. Wouldn't you say that Paul in Acts 17:23 did a similar thing? Yes Paul filled it up with meaning in the rest of the chapter but this document isn't the end of the discussion. Some of these people who wrote it are very involved and engaged in the Muslim world. I'm not saying I agree with everything in there, I have not signed it but I think you are very quick to judge. Also many Arab Christians use the name Allah for God- it's how God is translated.
I am delighted that John Piper and Al Mohler have addressed the issue.
Many weeks ago, twice I addressed "A Common Word between Us and You'". I called attention to the fact that many evangelicals endorsed this compromising document in "An Urgent Need for Steadfast Perseverance" and later I discussed more details about the document and accompanying documents in "Be Reconciled to God."
where did the video go?
I appreciate the video from John Piper, and I think that it is important to balance being full of Grace and Truth as we dialogue on this matter. I could see this snowball into judgement, slander, and gossip if we do not maintain humility, love, grace and truth.
For Christ's Fame,
Ken
www.MissionaryRoad.com
Interestingly, these Muslim scholars claim that Islam teaches them to be friends with Christians. Yet the Qur'an says exactly the opposite: "O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" (5:51). There is an exception, however. Surah 3:28 tells Muslims that they shouldn't become friends with non-Muslims, unless they do so as a precautionary measure. That is, Muslims can pretend to befriend non-Muslims when they feel threatened by non-Muslims. And what do we find in the letter from Muslim scholars? "Let's be friends, that's what Islam teaches!" No. Islam teaches you to pretend you want to be friends. And there's a difference.
All of this came out rather clearly in a recent debate between Sam Shamoun and Nadir Ahmed:
Debate: Is Islam a Religion of Peace?
I am thankful for Dr. Piper's calm, forceful witness in this video. May the confusion of our times provoke every Christian conscience. May we all bear a forthright witness to the Lord Jesus Christ.
There is a project trying to recruit 500,000 Christians to pray for heart changes in the FBI's wanted Terrorists and State Departments identified terror sponsors. That would be another good response to these "open letters." Not just words but loving actions. Search Google with "Adopt a Terrorist For Prayer" and you'll find out about it.
Nothing to be surprised about John Stott....Packer may even put his name on that document....both these men have messed up ever since their division with Dr Llyod Jones.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.mlj.org.uk/articles.htm
I appreciate Piper's ministry and his writings. They have been a great blessing to me over the years. But taking his advice on appropriate interaction with Muslims is like asking a plumber's advice on how to fix your car.
Wow. Lot's of pastor haters here....
Piper was very, very dead on. YOU CANNOT share a common bond of "love of God' with Muslims who hate the Christian God. Reject Jesus, you reject the Father.
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."
(2 Corinthians 6:14-18)
George,
I appreciate Piper's ministry and his writings. They have been a great blessing to me over the years. But taking his advice on appropriate interaction with Muslims is like asking a plumber's advice on how to fix your car.
What an amazing declaration!
I'm not surprised to see names of aberrant teachers (e.g., Cho, Schuller, etc) and host of liberals on the list. However, to find names of notable professing evangelical schools and their leaders is truly disappointing and disheartening.
May the church arm herself with discernment and use this missional opportunity to spread the supremacy of true Jesus.
I’ve thoroughly read and considered these letters and responses and agree that we must point Muslims to a powerful, crucified, and risen Christ who is God.
Still, I beg those who would hastily post comments on the topic, please spend as much time praying for and interacting with Muslims as you do critiquing those who are currently engaging them.
Please consider how you might radically and sacrificially love Muslims in the stunning way that Christ loved us while we were yet sinners.
Please remember that our enemy is Satan, not Muslims. When we write and talk about these things, we ought to ache for those who hearts have been blinded by the enemy.
I’ve spent the past seven years interacting with Muslims, and I am weeping to read so many calloused comments towards them all over the web. Where are the Christians who will demonstrate the truth of the Gospel in both words and actions? Where are the Christians who will enter deeply into the lives of Muslims? Where are the Christians who will lay down their lives for Muslims to know Christ?
4424i've been living in the muslim world for the past three years, and by god's grace have had the opportunity to evangelize and even disciple muslim background people.
I was surprised to see not one but two signers from Frontiers. I had considered partnering with this org in the future but this really gives me pause.
so i guess what i'm saying to Tia is:
I'm laying down my life for the glory of god among muslims right now. im laying down my life for muslims. i have entered deeply into their lives. i interact with muslims every day here in the middle east. my best friends here in this country are muslims. though many have sacrificed more, there is a measure of sacrifice in the life im living right now.
and i am very disappointed with and totally disapprove of the "christian response" to the common word.
To "b,"
My plea for loving Muslims is not directed toward you, since you are doing just that, nor toward John Piper, who expresses the need for this in his address and speaks in a way that demonstrates that he does indeed have a burden for Muslim people.
My plea is toward the many voices across the web whose responses demonstrate little compassion toward, and much fear of, Muslims.
I am merely pleading that in this discussion we remember to accompany our zeal for upholding the Truth (which should not be minimized) with a deep compassion for Muslims. Your description of your life suggests that you are doing this, and I'm very grateful for it.
If the "evangelical" response was not what so many wanted, where were the appropriate responses?
It seems it would have been more profitable for someone to have written a response rounded with both truth and broken-hearted compassion for Muslims when the original common word letter came out rather than just as a response to the response.
While I agree we need to be clear with the gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Cor 4:2) and would not personally sign the Yale letter without some revision, it seems like perhaps the best response would be to take the open door for the gospel. The document from the Islamic leadership may bridge opportunities to friendship and dialogue with Muslims in your neighborhood and cities and if we believe in the power of the word of God and the truth of Christ and the ability of the Spirit to remove the veil from blind eyes then we have nothing to fear from dialogue and friendship built on love for our Muslim brothers and sisters and our desire to see them rejoice in the supremacy of God THROUGH Jesus Christ.
Paul himself quoted from the religious poetry of the Athenians and he used an altar at their place of worship as a means of an inroads - ending with Christ.
Can we like Paul make use of the gospel touchstones God has built into nearly every culture and religion and then REDEEM them with a true and right understanding about God rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
God IS the "all-merciful one" so let's redeem that name with a right view of his infinite mercy through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I agree with Tia that we as Christians who love truth and the uniqueness and beauty of a crucified, risen, divine Christ should be the first to weep and the quickest to pray for and engage our lost Muslim brothers and sisters and to be careful we are not armchair missiologists, full of good theology but lacking in love and not radically engaging the poor, lost and enslaved like Jesus.
i've had the indescribably joyful experience of seeing muslims give their heart to jesus, to believe in him and confess him as lord.
i don't just know of these people, i know them well. they're my friends.
and i know that if they read this document, they would say it's no good. and if they read the 'christian response', they would think it is no good.
Interesting to see not just who signed this response but who did not, and who did not even bother to respond. The October EMQ featured an article describing the relation of fear to a spectrum of writing about Islam that spans from appeasement at one end to judgement on the other with engagement in the middle. Many in Frontiers lean toward appeasement in applying principles of contextualization, but at least some of them responded. Piper's counter response correctly judges Islam but does not engage with Muslims. Fear of Muslims results in many appeasers and many judgers but precious few can be found in the lonely and dangerous middle.
i would sincerely be interested in someone helping me understand where i fit on the spectrum. i agree with piper. i do not fear muslims. (whats that about anyway?) and i'm obviously engaged as i've been living here in the middle east evangelizing muslims for three years. (im chatting with one of my muslim friends here as a type this)
i guess i'm just proposing that it is possible to disapprove of the Xn response, agree basically with piper's response, and be engaged with muslims for the glory of god.
in fact, i think that is the true middle of the spectrum.
if i were as vague to my muslim friends as the Xn response is, then i don't think i would be loving them.
at the same time, i realize that many who agree w/ piper are probably not engaged w/ muslims. but i'm not going to agree with a statement that is weak/unclear because many who oppose it are not engaging muslims.
i agree that the middle is lonely and dangerous.
The Muslim Cleric/Scholar's letter "A Common word" was a blatant profession of the Islamic faith. They make it quite clear that the basis of discussion between Muslims and Christians for peace initiatives, will be the love of God,(devoid of any partners) and love of one's neighbour.
Sadly,the Christian Response was a compromise, of the basics of our faith. Reality Check: Our God is none other than the one Jesus revealed to us, of which HE IS part of, not the one that the letter proposes.
Is it not possible for Christians to reach out to Muslims without betraying Christ?
Do we have to surrender our truth to conform to the Islamic concept of God, in order to dialogue for peace?
Thank you John
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